Henry Raymond
Fairfax News => Political Issues/Comments => Topic started by: vtgoober on January 12, 2011, 11:08:55 PM
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Monday night the Fairfax School Board voted 3-1 to include Full-Day Kindergarten for the 2011-2012 school year.
The most recent data collected from a survey conducted by the elementary principal in September 2007 showed 50% of surveyed parents opposed moving our 2/3 day program to a full day program. Two years ago when full-day kindergarten was before the board, the school administrators and Board asked for public input over the course of several meetings, took appropriate measures to notify the public when board discussion on this topic would be occurring, and even formulated a committee of school employees, parents and community members to study the issue. This time that was not the case.
This time, a last-minute petition was presented to the board on Monday night in conjunction with a letter from administration and staff asking for this discussion to be reopened. These individuals were the only people aware that there was going to be a discussion occurring at Monday night’s board meeting about including full-day kindergarten in the 2011-12 budget.
Yes, kindergarten was listed on the agenda posted late last week outside the library as shown here:
5. Board Business
a. FY2012 Budget – Action
b. Approve FY2012 Legal Warning – Action
c. Approve FY2010 Audit Report – Action
d. Approve FY2012 Announced Tuition Rate – Action
e. Approve Revisions to Parks & Recreation Agreement – Action
f. Merger Update
g. Kindergarten
Anyone looking at this posted agenda would not know that kindergarten was being discussed as part of the FY2012 Budget that was set for ‘action’ or a vote on Monday night. In fact, it clearly reads that this topic was to be brought up after the budget vote was taken. It is also not clear by looking at the agenda that the discussion was going to be about full-day kindergarten. The agenda given to school board members goes even further and reads as “g. kindergarten discussion.” Was it even possible or appropriate for them to vote on this discussion item?
The deceptive presentation of this item on the agenda was further compounded by school staff asking for community member signatures inside the school building during school hours on Monday in clear violation of school policy. I am also equally disturbed by the consistent pattern of inconsistent and contradictory information presented to the board and public over the past three years on the topic of kindergarten.
The cost of including full-day kindergarten has been a constantly changing one. Each presentation by the same administration on the cost of including a full-day kindergarten program has used vastly different figures. When first presented in 2008, the cost was presented at roughly $70,000 with an additional $10,000 towards afternoon busing taken from the co-curricular budget. This number then became $40,000 a short time later after some refiguring. On Monday night, the board was told yet again a different number. Does anyone actually know the true cost of adding this program at this point? Where was the public presentation on these true costs and figures? It would be great if the administrators and school board would be honest and upfront with the community of Fairfax in representing the entire cost of adding on a full-time kindergarten program.
For the 2008-09 school year, a 4-day per week full-day intervention program was created to support the students who were determined to need additional services through assessments made by the kindergarten teachers; this was presented as best practice by the administration. These identified students are deemed to be in need of services for only a portion of the year at a time. After reassessment, students are dropped from the intervention program and return to the same extended day schedule as the rest of their peers. This practice certainly seems to speak against the need for full-day kindergarten for all. Additionally, there is no data from our own school regarding the effects of its full-day intervention program for the students it has served over the past couple years. This small group based intervention program targeted to those most in need of further support will be taken away with the implementation of a full-day kindergarten program.
For the 2009-10 school year, a fourth kindergarten classroom and teacher were added in order to reduce class size. The argument presented by the same administration to taxpayers and the board was that reducing class size was best practice for kindergartners because it allows teachers more time to spend with each student while creating a more relaxed classroom atmosphere among other benefits. This argument was repeated again for the 2010-11 school year in order to keep the four extended day kindergarten classes even though enrollment numbers were lower than expected. These statements are in direct contradiction to those made that class size doesn’t have an impact made by the same administration while advocating for a full-day program to be implemented for the 2008-2009 school year (in lieu of 4 classrooms with reduced class sizes at the same cost). Monday night the same administration presented a full-day program for 2011-12 consisting of only three classrooms, meaning increased class sizes to over 20 kindergarteners per class again, as best practice. It certainly seems that what is best practice or in the best interests of the students is not what we have been voting on for the past several years but what suits the whims of the administration and staff.
I feel this was a well-orchestrated and deceitful way for the elementary administration and school board to sneak in a hot and divisive budget item without clearly alerting the public that full-day kindergarten was being introduced as a budget item at the eleventh hour for the 2011-12 budget. This lack of proper notification did not afford the parents, providers, and community members opposed to the inclusion of a full-day kindergarten program the opportunity to speak. Monday night, the board was supposed to be finalizing any last edits after months of budget work and voting on a budget and warning to submit to the town clerk for Town Meeting Day.
Instead, this school board acted without integrity. It is their job as our elected officials to make sure that the budget process is one that is open, honest, transparent, and completed in an ethical manner. Being a community member that has followed the kindergarten issue closely for years, I was shocked this last minute budget addition was allowed especially since this very same board had already discussed the kindergarten program during its budget meetings this year and had stated that full-day kindergarten would not be put in the 2011-12 school budget.
Considering the immense community outpouring on this divisive issue each time it has come before the board, I was incredibly disappointed as a parent, taxpayer, and community member that there was not a forthright public announcement to the community about this item in the agenda, in the school newsletter, on vtgrandpa.com, and in the Fairfax News as has been done each time in the past. It is difficult to trust an administration and board that picks and chooses when it will inform the parents and public on major decisions like whether or not to include full-day kindergarten. It is difficult to trust an administration and staff that seems to change what they state is best practice every year or two as well.
Aside from the issue of how this came before the board last evening is the issue of whether there is any benefit to the 5 year olds of Fairfax to move from our current 2/3 day program(also called extended day) to a full-day program. People tout that research states there is. This same research also clearly states that extended or 2/3 day programs are considered full-day programs by researchers. People claim one of the benefits of moving to full-day programs is socialization; however, this same research states that full-day programs actually have lower rates of pro-social behavior. This research also clearly states that by 3rd and 4th grade at the latest you can’t distinguish between children who attended full-day, extended day, or half-day kindergarten programs.
We are being asked as taxpayers to pay the added expense every year for a full-day kindergarten program when people are struggling to feed their children, when people are accessing state aid programs at record rates, and when people are lucky to be employed. It seems inappropriate to be adding programs and staff salary increases in this hidden manner in a budget that has staff losing their jobs, staff having reduced hours, and existing programs being reduced and cut.
We will be told a lot about how other communities, including Fletcher and Georgia, have moved to full-day programs. The teachers say that we need to do it now because they did. As parents, we have been known to ask our children if their friends are all jumping off a bridge, does that mean they should too? Just because another community does something, does not make it in the best interests or appropriate for our community.
What exactly do any of us know about the full-day kindergarten program that was voted on? We could refer to the fact sheet put out by this administration in 2008 to seek some insight, except the only information provided during Monday’s board meeting on the full-day program was about recess and this contradicted their fact sheet as well. The fact sheet from 2008 states there will be 2 20-30 minute recesses for our kindergarteners; the same administration stated during this board meeting that there would only be one. It is difficult to trust an administration that keeps presenting conflicting or inadequate information. It is difficult to trust a school board that accepts such contradictions without question.
We heard a lot Monday night from some board members about the need for them to listen to the administrators who are making the recommendations about what is best practice. Whatever happened to listening to parents? These children are ours. We are their first and their most important teachers throughout their lives. We are responsible for the adults they become. However, parents have been made to feel incompetent in how to support their children’s education throughout this process. They are often faced with the ‘we are the teachers and therefore know best’ attitude. I am a parent who is also a licensed teacher and wholeheartedly does not believe that full-day kindergarten is in the best interest of our children or my children.
I would encourage community members to attend any school board meeting (2nd Monday of each month, 6:30pm in the library) and Town Meeting Day (Saturday, February 26th in the elementary gym) to let board members know that this kind of underhandedness is not how we want our board, administrators, and staff to operate. I would strongly urge each Fairfax resident to vote NO to this behavior, NO to full-day kindergarten, and NO to the Fairfax School Budget for the 2011-12 school year.
Respectfully submitted,
Patricia Hendee
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Isn't your husband / life partner, Robbin Freeman, the chairman of the school board?
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My husband, Robin Freeman, is not the chair of the BFA-Fairfax school board. And, he voted no.
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As I understand it, there will be an opening on the School Board. Now is your chance?
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I would like to truly hear what the teachers will do with the full day vs the current curriculum. I personally have no children and if this is going to include a wider curriculum based on more time with the students I am willing to pay for full days.
However, if this is not the case, I am not willing to pay for everyone to have day care for their 5 year olds. Which can be the case for some schools.
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I wholeheartedly support full-day kindergarten. My daughter, who is now in 6th grade, was denied access into preschool in Fairfax because she did not "qualify." As such, we made the decision to seek opportunities outside of the Fairfax school district for her. She attended full-day preschool and full-day kindergarten, at our expense (which was in addition to our school taxes), because we felt that this was not only beneficial to her educational future, it was also a better fit for her than day care. We reap the benefits of this decision everyday as we watch her grow and bloom within the school system at Fairfax.
Not all of us have the luxury or benefit of being able to stay at home and have to seek services outside of the home to ensure that our children are getting what they need to be successful. I work hard everyday as a public servant for the State of Vermont and although my child is beyond kindergarten at BFA Fairfax, I will not gripe about a minimal increase in my tax bill if it means that other Fairfax children are afforded an opportunity for full day kindergarten and if this eases the burden for some parents with respect to a better fit for their child in day care vs. educational environment.
I fully support the elementary administration and teachers and believe that the best interest of our children is at the forefront of their decision-making and I would vote yes, without hesitation, to a budget that FINALLY would allow us to follow suit with many of the other school districts around us who recognize the importance of full day kindergarten.
Kindergarten is not mandated by the State of Vermont. If you have the ability to stay home with your child and feel that you can do a better job than the school system, more power to you. However, please do not deny others the opportunity to make the decision to send their child to full-day kindergarten.
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I full heartedly believe that Fairfax should provide full-time kindergarten. I believe that it prepares children for the future in ways that we can not even begin to express on this forum. As a taxpay and as a parent I believe we as a community need to step up to the plate and give the future generations all opportunities possible. Times change. Kindergarten may not even have been possible when myself or older generations were growing up. However, the demands placed on children upon entering the school system were also not what they are today. Today's children need to be able to know how to write and read prior to even entering first grade. When I was growing up those were taught in first grade. Also as a parent and taxpayer I do not believe that kindergarten should be used as a means of daycare. We as parents are the primary teachers in our children's life and need to ensure that education begins at home. However, we can not deny our children the right to an early education in a structured environment. We must remember that the 5 year olds of today are our future leaders and some day will be responsible for our generation's well being. Let's give them the opportunity to succeed.
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I am also fully supportive of a full-day kindergarten.
Given the choice between sending my kids to daycare or sending them to school, I would choose school. Given the choice between keeping my kids at home or sending them to kindergarten, I would still choose school- I think the first couple of years of education can be some of the most important, and with a well articulated curriculum (good point, MKR!) and practice we would be giving the kids in Fairfax a solid foundation on which to build the rest of their educational lives. The amount of academic distance a kids covers from Kindergarten through first grade can be remarkable; I've taught both, and I've seen kids enter Kindergarten needing help getting their shoes on the right feet, and leave first grade as fully independent readers, writers, mathematicians, and scientists. This process is not terribly easy, and is in my mind dependent on a full day program in Kindergarten.
As to the behavior of the administration and board...I don't have much to say about it. I would like the two arguments to be separated. I think the question of a full day kindergarten should be considered on it's own merits, not based on feelings about other issues. If the financial responsibility question can be answered to everyone's satisfaction, and if the content of the full day is seen to be a valuable addition to the students' academic lives, if this makes sense from an educational and financial standpoint...then I don't understand why we wouldn't do it.
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logical - I have to agree, and disagree, with some of what you said. You said - " I do not believe that kindergarten should be used as a means of daycare". I agree with that statement. I believe kindergarten prepares our kids for first grade. I also agree that it is a huge leg up if our kids can read and write before they enter first grade. My kids and my grandkids all did. You also said - "We as parents are the primary teachers in our children's life and need to ensure that education begins at home". I couldn't agree more with this statement.
I have to disagree with this statement - "I full heartedly believe that Fairfax should provide full-time daycare". Why should I help pay for your daycare needs? Nobody helped me out when my kids were young. My wife and I did what we needed to do to make sure our kids were well taken care of. Your kids are your responsibility, as are your daycare needs.
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MKR, their day would include adding lunch, (in their class as NOT enough lunchroom time now with kids/times for lunch, so add on more lunch people- or max out we have now, & more cleaning for our custodial staff), extra recess time, & originally there was a quiet time added as it would be overwhelming for these youngsters to go all day without one!, add on extra benefits for the teachers, extra aides, probably extra lots that we don't know about! Yup, NOT what I want to pay for!! Any daycare provider, myself included, know how wiped out these kids are after a 2/3 day, so maybe what will happen is then we will have to increase PRE-k time to get these kids "ready" for kindergarten! REMEMBER EVERYONE, KINDERGARTEN IS NOT REQUIRED IN OUR STATE! So at a time when our economy is still stressed, to say the least, now is not the time to add on to do this....sorry Drew but to help YOUR daycare costs????.... YOU choose to have children, YOU choose to add lots of responsibilities to your life! I once read in a "Working Mother" magazine that BEFORE you have children, know you will pay 1/2-2/3 of your pay for childcare for the 1st 5 years of your child's life......seem like alot, but as an in home provider, we average $3.00 per hr per child( & under in some cases!)...so, it's NOT alot! & within reason, you can't put a price on the person you are trusting with your child for quality care!! Remember also, IF this gets voted in, you will continue to pay for this (& more I am sure), for MUCH longer than to have your child in daycare!
Also, as a provider, we are allowed so many "spots" for kids; what will happen to those full time kindergartners after school, when providers will need to fill their spots with a full-time child; many will continue to charge for the "spot" if you want it or you may end up paying the much higher rate for after school care- if you find someone @ all!
Recently there has been lots of child experts that say we have too much pressure on kids; lets add a little more @ a young age! Let them be kids!
Patricia, I applaud you & your husband for letting this be known. I am very surprised @ our administration & board! Our board , I feel, has always worked very hard @ trying to get a budget that is fair to all as much as possible & it's been a long time since one of our budgets has not passed........but maybe this will be the year it does NOT pass; it does NOT get my support this year & I may be only 1 vote, but I know going about this the way it was done, will not make a hit with many!
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Corm,
I do not believe that Fairfax should provide full time daycare either, but full time kindergarten. When I had children I made the choice to do so and should therefore be responsible for their daycare! I beleive that kindergarten and daycare are and should be two separate entities.
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Drew, you asked for some examples of the research I was referencing.
Here are a couple of many examples you can find online:
"Earlier ECLS-K reports found that public school children who attended full-day (vs. half-day) kindergarten programs made greater gains in kindergarten in reading and mathematics, after controlling for other characteristics, and were more likely to demonstrate advanced reading skills at the end of the kindergarten year (Walston and West 2004; Denton, West, and Walston 2003). When overall achievement was compared for full-day and half-day children from both public and private schools, however, differences in reading and mathematics achievement were not detected (West, Denton, and Reaney 2001). Findings from the current report also detected no differences in achievement at the end of third grade for public and private school children combined, related to the type of kindergarten program children had attended."
from:
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/beg_school/conclusion.asp (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/beg_school/conclusion.asp) Final report in series of four reports from National Center for Educational Statistics, a US DOE division responsible for compiling educational statistics
"Our analyses reinforce the findings of earlier studies that suggest that full-day kindergarten
programs may not enhance achievement in the long term. Furthermore, our study raises the
possibility that full-day kindergarten programs may actually be detrimental to mathematics
performance and nonacademic readiness skills."
and
"Attendance in a full-day kindergarten program was negatively associated with attitudes toward
learning, self-control, and interpersonal skills, and was positively related toward internalizing
(measured by a scale indicating presence of anxiety, loneliness, low self-esteem, and sadness) and externalizing behaviors."
from:
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2006/RAND_MG558.pdf (http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2006/RAND_MG558.pdf) Part of a 2006 Congressional Review Letter from Rand Corporation, objective non-profit think tank funded by the federal government and other entities to analyze various policy positions related to many different subjects. This one looked at students through the end of the fifth grade.
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The reality is that you can find research to say whatever you want it to say, both for and against full-day kindergarten. A quick Internet search:
From the Indiana Department of Education: "Teachers reported significantly greater progress for full-day children in literacy, math, general learning skills, and social skills. Full-day kindergarten children spend more time in teacher-directed individual work and learning centers. Elicker and Mathur (1997) found that full-day kindergarten allowed children to be more actively engaged and more positive in their activities." AND "Full-day kindergarten programs can result in social benefits. In a longitudinal study by J.R. Cryan (1992), children in full-day kindergarten programs showed more positive behavior than their peers in half-day kindergarten in the areas of originality, independent learning, involvement in classroom activities, and productivity with their peers, and their approach to the teacher."
AND:
From the Arizona Department of Education: Benefits for students include more time and opportunity to play with language as well as to explore subjects in depth, more flexible, individualized learning environment, more individual and small-group interaction with the teacher than is possible in most half-day classrooms. Benefits for parents include lowered childcare costs possible, the opportunity for lower-income families to enroll children in a higher quality early education program that might otherwise be affordable in the private market, less difficulty scheduling childcare and transportation, especially when more than one child is enrolled in the same school, increased opportunities to get involved in their children's classroom, as well as to communicate with the teacher. Benefits for teachers include reduced ratio of transition time to learning time, more time to spend with students individually and in small groups , more time to get to know and communicate with parents, more time to assess students and individualize instruction to their needs and interests ,
This isn’t a “research-based” discussion. There is no definitive research either way. It’s about a community making a decision in the best interest of the children. Look around us – why have so many other school districts implemented full-day kindergarten if it is truly so detrimental and costly to the community?
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This will NOT get my vote!
Will this year be the first year the Budget doesn't pass?
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In 1991, the budget was voted down. And again in the late 90's I think.
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One comment in hear is concerning because I can not find a source and I fear that misinformation could spread through our community that we are requesting to have full day daycare. I haven't read a single word on this thread in which anyone is advocating for full day daycare. I haven't read a thing at all that states that anyone is advocating for any type of public daycare.
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Please correct me if I misread or misunderstood the original post. Is the proposal to go from 4 classes at 2/3 day to 3 classes at full day?
How large has the decline in enrollment been?
What would the impact to student to teacher ratios for kindergarten be if this change is implemented?
My child is a couple years away from entering the system. I'm happy with her current daycare and the progress she's already showing due to quality daycare (which seems to be expensive overall, but as pointed out, is actually low when viewed as an hourly rate).
I minored in education in college, and personally, I believe the younger a student is, the better they respond to more interactive education (lower student/teacher ratios). While a full day appears to offer more education time, I wonder how much of the time would be spent on the same level of education currently provided due to the teachers needing more time to help all students. More students per teacher * time spent with each student to teacht he material MAY EQUAL less time for new material, less time to go more in depth.
As stated by others, the nature in which this action was taken should be a separate discussion and HOPEFULLY will be reflected in peoples votes when it is time for board members to be re-elected. I agree that this is NOT the type of "representation" I want.
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Drew,
I think the comment about public daycare is an expression of a individuals belief that school serves as public financed daycare for kids.
When in reality, as mentioned by a daycare provider already, MOST parents find they have to still pay full day daycare price (or almost full day price) just to retain a "spot" in a daycare for afterschool care since very few of us work the same hours as the current school day.
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the word "daycare" was edited to the term "full day kindergarten" in an earlier post after corm saw it.
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Thank you Chris
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Thank you, Drew. As one of the biggest road blocks for full day kindergarten at this time is the cost it may be beneficial to see a break down of the additional cost as well. If we are going from 4 classrooms to 3 wouldn't that help counter the cost for full day?
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Thank you, Drew. As one of the biggest road blocks for full day kindergarten at this time is the cost it may be beneficial to see a break down of the additional cost as well. If we are going from 4 classrooms to 3 wouldn't that help counter the cost for full day?
I think this is a part of the argument Patricia was making earlier and that I support. There appears to be confusion year over year from both our elected officials and representatives of our school district as to what these costs will be. I too think that the economical implications are still unknown and need to be discussed. This is information I do not have. If someone comes back to me and says it only costs $50,000; there has to be a way to generate the $50,000 in the existing budget. If you tell me its going to cost $500,000 then we have a different story altogether.
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Honestly, I cannot believe we are even having this conversation. Just last night “new curriculum” was approved by the DOE and I believe, deemed essential for Kindergarten and First Grade. Now, I understand the arguments presented for why full day kindergarten should be removed from the budget. I understand why people find it necessary to stand on their soap box and rant about an item that has been under consideration for the last four years. What was not mentioned earlier was that during the initial attempt it was indeed added to the budget and then when Governor Douglas asked communities to radically trim budgets, it was removed. So, it has been fully vetted, now it is time to implement it.
In an earlier post, the following point was made. “These children are ours. We are their first and their most important teachers throughout their lives. We are responsible for the adults they become.” These children are indeed ours, and as a parent I would kindly offer that if we are so infallible and amazing as parents, why are certain things being forced upon the educational system to teach? Bullying and Harassment to name but a few. In the case of these two and more specifically cyber-bullying, the schools are now being asked to act as law enforcement. The current legislation asks them to investigate, treat, punish and monitor victims and perpetrators alike. When did this responsibility fall off the plate of us parents? If you want to make changes to school budgets, work to let teachers and administrators teach, not force them to serve as police officers and teach the virtues of Emily Post.
If people have an issue with the length of the Kindergarten day, then speak to the DOE. As they add expectations to the curriculum, this teaching and learning cannot “just happen”. Teachers need time to teach and students need time to learn. As we all know from watching our children grow, play is essential to child development. As you increase the classroom expectations, you increase the educational demands placed on students and teachers. What you are left with are students and teachers under a tremendous amount of pressure to teach as well as learn material in increasingly shorter periods of time. Moving forward with the next lesson becomes is essential. Spending time differentiating learning ceases and those who do not grasp the information the first time around inevitably get left behind. It goes without saying that increasing the day means increasing curriculum (see the DOE’s ever expanding list of essential skills to be taught in Kindergarten), but most importantly it means spending more time with each student thus ensuring their enduring understanding!
As a Counselor, I see the results of this everyday. I see the reluctant High School student who has consistently felt behind at school and is frustrated playing educational catch-up. There is tremendous satisfaction in teaching and helping these students. I often wonder though, what if we focused our attention and money EARLY on in the process would we continue to have these problems (why do we cut programs like Reading Recovery but then in turn increase special education funding). I think full day kindergarten no matter how it is implemented with time for rest, relaxation and play is essential and inevitable. Studies show rest, play and a relaxed learning environment re-invigorates the brain and stimulate learning. When learning happens in a relaxed environment more and better learning can take place. It is time to invest our money in our future. Our future is our children and they deserve our respect and attention. Too often education is the scapegoat for cutting funds, why? Are we not just hurting the kids we claim to be serving so well?
I think it is time we let the educators we trust with our children decide what is best for them. If we take a petty, selfish stance and make petty bitter sounding arguments, what does that teach our children? Does it teach them to be critical thinkers? Where we weigh all options and ultimately select the best option, or does it teach them to be loud and petty. I want a world of critical thinkers. I want a world where logical arguments can be presented and decisions are made based on information, passion and reason. Not just passion. Passion is important in decision making; just don’t let it rule your reason.
I trust the elementary educators and administrators to do what is in the best interest of my child and for future children. If my kid takes a short nap at day care, and learns more as a result, so be it. If they have play time and learn more as a result, so be it. No matter what full day kindergarten may cost, ultimately the education our children receive is priceless. I believe it is time we supported the school and their decision to implement full day kindergarten. Not once has anyone said thank you to these devoted educators in this forum. We all expect them to do more with less and then trash them when they speak up and tell us they need a bit more. When it comes to educating my child, money should be no object. If it means eating beans and rice, I will eat beans and rice if it ensures a quality education. We trust teachers with our precious children, let’s give them the support they need to do the jobs we need them to be passionate about. If that means full day kindergarten and an increase in my taxes then bring it on! Keeping it out of the school for any reason is ludicrous and criminal.
The argument about salaries and benefits is juvenile and petty. Most teachers live in the district and essentially contribute to their own salaries. That said, if you took the time to examine a school budget in detail, a significant portion of the budget is spent on special education, significantly more than on salaries and benefits. Special Education costs are HUGE and are ever growing. I do not believe trimming a school budget ever helps the kids as ultimately, it is programs like Reading Recovery that are designed to catch kids before they enter the Special Education arena are cut. These programs essentially cost nothing year to year. Without the safety net they provide to students, more children are referred to special programs to catch up and this dramatically contributes to the ever increasing cost of Special Education. Full day kindergarten in turn represents a minute percentage of the overall school budget. If paying for full day kindergarten keeps just a few students out of Special Education, think of what we could do with the savings!
Lastly, if you feel you must vote no on the school budget, vote no because you have researched the impact of full day kindergarten on children and believe after synthesizing all the info it is important to send the message that you are not in favor of it (the Critical thinkers vote). Please do not vote no, simply because you are mad at perceived imperfections or wrongdoings in the process (the petty vote). This only hurts the kids. Also, don’t be blinded by the topic of full day, there are many other line items in the budget that could be deemed too expensive and legitimate reasons to ask the board to re-examine the budget. That said, it is my opinion that if we think about the big picture and the positive impact full day will have on our kids a vote of “yes” on the budget is in order here.
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if this was Facebook I would have selected the "Like" button on Counselor's post.
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Thank you, Drew. As one of the biggest road blocks for full day kindergarten at this time is the cost it may be beneficial to see a break down of the additional cost as well. If we are going from 4 classrooms to 3 wouldn't that help counter the cost for full day?
I think this is a part of the argument Patricia was making earlier and that I support. There appears to be confusion year over year from both our elected officials and representatives of our school district as to what these costs will be. I too think that the economical implications are still unknown and need to be discussed. This is information I do not have. If someone comes back to me and says it only costs $50,000; there has to be a way to generate the $50,000 in the existing budget. If you tell me its going to cost $500,000 then we have a different story altogether.
It is my understanding from the meeting that for the first year there is no impact on the budget, (thus no direct property tax increase from its implementation) as Medicaid funds can and will be used to pay for the program. After that the impact is not even close to the artificial "$50,000" threshold you mention. If fact, as I understand it, the number is closer to $5,000 for the first year (2012-2013) with slight increases from year to year after that. Even if I mis-heard the numbers, I am not off by much, and we are certainly looking at WAY less than potential numbers discussed earlier.
Again, this was discussed during the meeting and should be public knowledge, and part of the discussion as you suggest. Failure to cite these numbers early on in the discussion is just a bit unfair, as it artificially colors the decision making of those who were not present and are using this forum for information. So, not only is full day kindergarten a necessary part of our educational future, we can do it with much less impact on the overall budget than the spiraling out of control Special Education budget. Seems like a no brainer to me to simply make this happen.
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So there is no impact to the budget? Well, if I had known that at the beginning of this discussion, I wouldn't have invested in over four hours trying to study upon a topic that I knew supported but had a difficult way of communicating effectively as you have. My wife said we need to have full day kindergarten and I have a tendancy in belieivng her when she talks about education. As a fiscal conservatie, (aka - cheap), I am thinking that our school district has managed our money well. All of this discussion seems 'moot' if its going to be as affordable as you say. I think this sounds great.
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Counselor: Agreed. Thank you.
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Cedarman asks:
“Is the proposal to go from 4 classes at 2/3 day to 3 classes at full day?
How large has the decline in enrollment been?
What would the impact to student to teacher ratios for kindergarten be if this change is implemented?”
Counselor says:
“I think full day kindergarten no matter how it is implemented with time for rest, relaxation and play is essential and inevitable.”
mkr says:
“I would like to truly hear what the teachers will do with the full day vs the current curriculum.”
There seems to be a lot of confusion over the costs associated with moving to a full-day kindergarten program that community members, including myself, are trying to figure out and guess at on our own.
Ansbaker says, “This isn’t a “research-based” discussion.”
These are all good points and questions that could have been asked if the public had been properly notified in advance of the proposal to add a full-day kindergarten program during the final budget board meeting of the year.
This is the information I have:
The full-day kindergarten program that was voted into the FY2012 budget is for 3 full-day classrooms. (Yes, the existing 4 2/3 day classes would become only 3 full-day classes.) The administration offers that any parents opposed to full-day may pick up their child at noon, but there will not be transportation offered for this option.
The school board also voted in a longer school day during the January 10th meeting. School begins at 8:25 am currently; it will begin at 8:10 am beginning next year. This will mean even earlier bus pick-ups. Every year, some kindergarteners fall asleep on their bus ride home at noon as it is. The school board also just formed a committee to look at consolidating Fairfax and Fletcher schools. This too would have an impact on the length of bus rides on both ends of the day for our youngest students.
The typical kindergarten enrollment is 60 children. In 2009-10, a fourth kindergarten classroom was added because the enrollment was to be 64 or higher; both the staff and administration argued that reduced class sizes were needed. In 2010-11, enrollment is currently projected to be 60. However, the average class size (according to birth record data) will continue to be around the 60 threshold for the next two years before there is a peak again of around 70 children. This is not an exact science; some families do move away each year, but roughly the same number of families also move into town.
There will be an impact on the student : teacher ratio. Currently with 4 classrooms, there is a 15 children : 1 teacher and 1 paraeducator ratio. With a move back to 3 classrooms, this will increase the ratio to 20+ children : 1 teacher and 1 paraeducator.
As for the topic of rest, the administration has been clear that there will not be a rest time offered that has the children lay down and rest their bodies and sleep if needed. According to the 2008 fact sheet (the only information this administration has put out to the public regarding its full-day kindergarten plans), a 15-20 minute “quiet choice time following lunch is a part of our elementary routine.” Each elementary classroom offers this choice time as a transition from lunch/recess back to learning mode. The State of Vermont requires childcare providers to provide a 30 minute rest time to the kindergarteners in their care.
According to the 2008 fact sheet, the administration has stated that, “there will be no curriculum additions as we move to a full day kindergarten.”
As for the issue of cost, the number presented to the board on January 10th was an approximate $25,000 increase over the cost for the kindergarten program that had been planned for next year. This increase seems to be lower for next year than previous years possibly because it represents the reduction in classrooms from 4 to 3 for next year, instead of previous estimates which compared costs for 3 extended day classrooms to 3 full day classrooms. It is also possibly lower than previous estimates because it eliminates the intervention program which targeted the children with the greatest identified needs. The previous shifting estimates of the increase were included in my original post. The costs for next year, and next year alone, would be borne by Medicaid funding because the Board wished to still state that they had met the Challenges for Change initiative. However, both the administration and the Board were clear that after next year the costs would be included in the general budget, thus having an impact on property taxes. It is also important to note that the costs of full day will only rise every year as staff salaries increase. It is unclear if this figure takes into account all of the incidental costs, like increased utilities, associated with this type of program addition. At this point it seems very undocumented and unclear why these cost estimates shift each time this subject is brought up.
According to ansbaker, this isn’t a research based discussion. Yet, whenever administration and staff point out that our community needs to add a full-day kindergarten program, they state that research supports it and that other non-comparable communities are doing it. The communities around us that have gone to full-day have been ˝ day programs. Ours is not a ˝ but an extended or 2/3 day program. If you negate the research discussion, then we are left with only copying non-comparable programs.
Counselor says, “Please do not vote no, simply because you are mad at perceived imperfections or wrongdoings in the process (the petty vote).” I would say that we are all role models for the children in our community. If the administration wanted to add full-day kindergarten into the budget for FY2012, there was an open, honest and transparent way to do so. It would have involved clear advertising of this agenda item, having financial information available to the public, having discussions over the course of the many budget meetings that take place each year, and taking public comment. While this has been done before, there are currently Board members who were not involved in that previous discussion, the recommendations of the previously formed kindergarten committee were not followed, and no information about what the program will actually look like has been presented. When elected officials form public policy that impacts every person in our town, the process matters. Even if you wholeheartedly support full-day kindergarten, it is my hope that you would want your Board to properly investigate and consider the issue and elicit community input before putting it in the budget at the last minute when they had already stated that it was not going to be included. I would hope that people would expect leaders and role models in our town to follow the process they were elected to follow even when it may go against their own personal views. At this point, the only way for this to happen is for the taxpayers of Fairfax to vote down the FY2012 budget.
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Patricia, I am flattered that you thought enough of my argument to cite me, not once but twice. As for my point about Rest, Relaxation and Play, these three are not necessarily meant to be mutually exclusive. As we know from both experience and research, play can be both relaxing and restful. Any break the brain gets from the same routine, is essential and energizing. Have you ever been so tired you read the same paragraph over and over? Simply get up, and walk the dog, move around, get a drink of juice and when you return to your book or work, you are able to attack it anew.
When I have an older student work with me, changing the routine is and adding structure are often essential components in bringing about real learning and alleviating the frustration and anger that comes with being a frustrated teen and/or learner. The same is true for the younger children. Recess, quiet play, a soft chair and good book will calm a tired mind and allow for fresh learning to take place. I did not mean to imply in my original post that rest = naps, but breaks from the hard work that takes place in the classroom does equate to rest.
True, there may be no curriculum additions… now, but inevitably there will be. Not to mention that the current curriculum is expansive enough as it is and adding more time will, as I stated before, allow for students to begin to own their learning. The frenetic pace these teachers must present information in currently, in order to cover the required curriculum is not conducive to real, lasting learning. The more gentle the pace the learning can take place in, over the longer day will ensure an enduring understanding and quite possibly less tired students at the end of the day.
Again, we come to the issue of cost, and you mention salaries. Currently, four teachers are as you say, 2/3 time employees. Three of these teachers are currently teaching for a full day, each for 1/3 of the year. Why have you failed to mention in any of your arguments the reason for this? They began doing this after full day was removed from the budget the first time. This was instituted in order to offer FULL DAY kindergarten, aka “Club” to students who needed a bit of remediation. If we currently pay three teachers to be full time for the school year are the increases really so dramatic as to warrant discussion here? As for the incidentals you mention, lights etc. I think that this too is an unnecessary argument. Teachers are at BFA quite late at night “consuming incidentals” and we do not complain about that. How many incidentals can 60 little bodies really consume?
As an aside, for the 15-20 children (give or take a few), who participate in club, some wonderful learning and support for that learning take place. Children that may have been forced to move on with their peers even though they may not have fully grasped concepts like, number and letter recognition, letter sounds and beginning reading skills etc. can now leave Kindergarten owning this knowledge. Are they tired? Sure they are. However, they have all had fun in their learning environment, and remain in step with their peers.
We are role models for our children, most certainly. I certainly hope my children read this discussion and are pleased at the level of considerate, open minded discourse taking place. It is a wonderful thing to be able to discuss items like this, and not resort to childish behavior. It is discussions like this that encourage people to have faith in their leaders and support initiatives, like full day kindergarten. That said, the process that was followed three years ago is not “past its sell by date”. You cited research 10-15 years old, should we discount it because it is “old”? The process that was followed three years ago yielded results that actually supported the addition of full day kindergarten. It was not a lack of support that brought about its removal from the budget, but an edict from our state leaders imploring us to radically trim budgets. The current directive to cut some 23 million from the education budget makes me very upset. What do you think gets cut from a budget? Certainly not Special Education funding. Programs essential for student involvement and success get cut. Be it Reading Recovery, Band, Art or Football, they face the chopping block before anything else. If you have a problem with monies, ask yourself why communities are asked to pay as much as $20,000 for one students’ out of school educational placement. The state does not pick up this entire cost, we do. If we trim our portion of the 23 million from the budget what are we left with? How do we do what is best for kids with that number?
As for the transparency you speak about, I doubt that any of our home budgets are as transparent as you expect the school budget to be. We have all come home to the unexpected “must have” item. What you are really talking about here, is trust. Though we come home to that unexpected item, we all TRUST that it was a smart, well intentioned purchase. I trust that, though this may have not been discussed ad nauseum this year, that it is the right thing to do. This idea HAS been discussed before and if the school board did not feel they had the funds before now to make this work, and now they do. So be it. Bottom line, I TRUST that they are making decisions with our money that ultimately are in the best interest of our children.
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My last post was primarily to respond with what information I have to concerns/questions that people have raised. These concerns were not addressed this year during school board meetings due to the process the administration and board followed.
The comparison to the transparency of my or anyone’s home budget is not applicable. The school budget uses public funds, and laws exist to make sure that the budget is transparent. Of course I expect the budget and the process to adopt it to be open and transparent; I would hope that we would all expect the same of any governmental entity.
For those who do not know, the school currently has a kindergarten intervention program for those students deemed by the kindergarten teachers to need it; this essentially equates to a full day at school for those students. This program began in the 2008-09 school year and run by a paraeducator (according to the administration, this is the third year of the program). Full-day kindergarten was last considered by the board during the budget planning meetings for the 2009-10 school year. The intervention program, which had already begun, clearly was not started in response to full-day kindergarten being removed from the budget. The kindergarten teachers themselves began to take turns running the intervention program during the 2009-10 school year. The practical effect is that the school basically pays one full-time and three 2/3-time teacher salaries over the course of the year for the 4 2/3-day classrooms with the intervention program. This program will be discontinued if full-day kindergarten is offered. The administration has offered no data at this point about the effectiveness of the program, so we do not know how well it is working.
As far as the last time full-day kindergarten was put in the budget, we do not know how much support it had because it never reached a public vote. The kindergarten committee formed during the 2008-09 school year, of which I was a part, did not unanimously support adding a full-day program but reached a compromise to recommend implementing a full-day gradually. This recommendation was at first supported by the administration and presented to the board. Before full-day kindergarten was eventually removed from the 2009-10 budget, however, the same administration had withdrawn its support and stated that it would implement full-day kindergarten immediately rather than follow the committee’s recommendation.
To clear up a misquote, the research reports I cited was not 10-15 years old but from 2004 and 2006. The internet links were put in my earlier post to allow anyone interested to read the research reports cited. Everyone can choose to believe what they wish, and everyone is free to say “I choose to believe that full day kindergarten is beneficial.” The research, however, does not support the notion that full-day kindergarten provides any lasting advantage.
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10-15 or 6-8 year old research, so what? You mention several times you want the board to re-open the study because the data is old. Said research, of which you were a part is 3-4 years old and thus by using your standards, for determining validity and efficacy, (the newer it is the more valid it is), younger and thus more valid than the research you cited. Meaning, it is still a valid and integral part of the discussion for determining whether or not full day kindergarten is a viable option for our community. It is not out of date and in need of being re-opened, re-tested and re-submitted. Even though as you mention, the vote then was not unanimous then, people on that very committee have since changed their minds and believe that now is the time for full day kindergarten. Not to mention, if you use the radically informal data here in this forum, there are by my calculations, currently, seven forum members (significant others included) who support full day, four that clearly do not (significant other included) and one undecided. The numbers are 10-4-1 if we include the school boards votes here. Using your measuring stick for research validity, my numbers are more recent, thus valid and the yes votes here seem to indicate it should indeed be a part of the budget.
You want transparency? By definition the fact that the item was discussed in a public forum and not hidden within a larger bill like some pork barrel piece of legislature means that there is transparency here. Albeit a bit opaque, but it is certainly there for public debate. The argument and comparison to a home budget is totally relevant. Full day kindergarten has been a part of every budget discussion since 2008. The district took seriously the states edict to level fund and as a result it was removed every budget cycle until now. Clearly, the district supports the idea but has not felt it had the funds to support it until now. We all make similar decisions with our own personal lives. Forgoing desired items until one day we decide the time is right for that expense. Our district has decided that the time for this budget item is now.
As ANS Baker said on this forum earlier, “This isn’t a “research-based” discussion. There is no definitive research either way. It’s about a community making a decision in the best interest of the children. Look around us – why have so many other school districts implemented full-day kindergarten if it is truly so detrimental and costly to the community?” DrewCash, right in this forum, took the liberty of finding many statements in FAVOR of full day kindergarten within the very research you cited. Not in just one article, but in every one of them. Yet, you go on to say, “The research, however, does not support the notion that full-day kindergarten provides any lasting advantage”.
Again, as discussed several times already, taken as a whole, this statement is an incredibly irresponsible, gross over- generalization. The whole of full day, kindergarten efficacy research, most certainly DOES NOT say this! If anything the research leaves us at a stand-off, equal on both sides. So, let us take research out of the equation, because we can both use it to make it say whatever the heck we want it to. This is about the community making a decision about what is in the best interest of our children. What is so bad about full day kindergarten? Can the thousand if not hundreds of thousands of district with full day kindergarten all be wrong? What about the fact that in the east, children go to school for a full day (which is actually 2-4 hours longer than our existing school day), six days a week? Is that wrong too? Full day kindergarten is not the root of all evil… I promise. If it added a huge dollar figure to the budget I might agree with you. In the long run the overall budget impact is quite small with potentially a HUGE return. Even if it is just a “big” return is it not worth it?
Lastly, I honestly, do not understand why you would encourage the entire community to vote down an entire school budget. That seems rather brash and just a bit dangerous. Do you realize that you would not just be impacting the kindergarten program, but the entire school budget? Are you willing to sacrifice any and all budget items for the sake of a full day program? What if full day is left in the next budget and theater is subsequently cut before the budget comes back to the community. Was this all worth it? We all saw (or most of us did based on the attendance) Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Beauty and the Beast. Clearly, the answer is NO. Is the thought of a full day program that bad that you are willing to risk anything in the budget just to prove your point? What is it about full day kindergarten that you are truly afraid of?
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Whoa, counselor... nicely done, and a very important point to make.
“I choose to believe that full day kindergarten is beneficial.” I will support the school budget, as I do each year.
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To clear up a misquote, the research reports I cited was not 10-15 years old but from 2004 and 2006. The internet links were put in my earlier post to allow anyone interested to read the research reports cited. Everyone can choose to believe what they wish, and everyone is free to say “I choose to believe that full day kindergarten is beneficial.” The research, however, does not support the notion that full-day kindergarten provides any lasting advantage.
@ Patricia: Your report(s) are from 2004 and 2006. But if you read the report and the data, the data is from 1998-1999. Therefore, the data is as old as I said it was and thus I was not misrepresenting the data you presented. Your report(s) are done to see the long lasting effect of kindergarten. Your report(s) states that there are signs of early advantages, but that the report(s) state these advantages are no longer recognizable after a certain grade point. As I stated before, which I deleted because I thought Counselor's argument of ($0 budget impact) was better than mine, if your report(s) state that there is no advantage by the 5th grade, then there is a recognizable difference in other earlier grades. And thus the impact or the loss of advantages gained can not be attributed to kindergarten, but the then quality of education between kindergarten and the fifth grade (the grade your report measured to.)
Even your report, says that it should be looked at carefully as it recognizes the variables that the data doesn't account for, etc. You are using this RAND report as if it was 'law' and the report itself says its not 'law.'
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Backing up a bit, as to the mention of daycare cost, Drew it was a posting YOU had done, which now has been removed, that said it'd be cheaper for full kindergarten than your full daycare costs. It is true that whatever side you agree with you can find information to support your belief. What I think should have happened, was for this, as Patricia said, to be discussed in a public forum, especially during these harder economic times. I feel Patrica is being responsible taking into consideration the "extras" it will cost, not just for lights, but as I mentioned before, lunchroom extras, custodial extras, the extra in supplies needed for a full day. But another point that some seem to just skip by, is that kindergarten is NOT required! So, in my opinion, what our school offers with a 2/3 school day is more than adequate for our children & a good use of our tax dollars. Angie, not everyone unfortunately takes as much time with their child/ren as you do; she is very lucky, but so were you...you come from good parents that devoted time for their children; sadly this does not always happen in many homes. I have been a daycare provider for over 27yrs., and many times over these years, children have been brought to us in the nighttime diaper, not fed & clearly with no bath the night before & when they pick them up, they can't wait the 2 hrs. or so to get them to bed! Reality bites, but this is what happens more than some can imagine. So NO matter what "extra" is put in the budget, we are still always going to have some kids that just aren't so fortunate &yes we need to help all of them, but WE ALREADY ARE!!
As for counselor's comments on how people on this forum have sided, I am sure you can't begin to imagine people that do not write on this forum, do NOT even read this forum,(although it's a great forum!), so that comment does not validate what many may feel; I know many that DO NOT support a full day kindergarten for many reasons just as you may know many who do. And to say not to pass a budget in fear something good may be deleted, like theater, if the public comes back & voices to the board the reason to vote down our budget is possibly because of the full day-K, our board most likely will listen! The reason why budgets are voted down are because people simply cannot afford the tax increase; to put in something extra, something that we already include in our budget that is NOT mandated, is just NOT being financially responsible at this time! Everyone's bills are increasing: food, gas, utilities,etc., but NOT everyones wages are increasing; some are lucky to have a job & some are not.
Another good point Patricia brought is the discussion on the possible merger of Fletcher to Fairfax. I read Fletcher school would not close, but could this possibly mean kids that are on the boarder of our towns, may have option to come here? That could increase enrollment, SO then we'd be looking a BUILDING??!! These are things that should be looked at before deciding to have a fulltime K program...my opinion.... but I do vote & I will not vote for this school budget!
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If we are paralyzed by what if’s and maybes then we will never move forward. We can’t assume something MAY happen and let that influence all of our decisions today. As for my comment about items being deleted from the budget, if this budget is voted down then anything, is fair game. For this budget cycle there is a ZERO percent increase if we go to full day kindergarten. Do we really think the board would remove an item that this year costs them nothing? At the very least, lets go for it this year and evaluate the validity of the program and gauge community support before the next budget cycle when there would be a financial impact. As for merging with Fletcher, they have1/2 day kindergarten now, and have approved a move to full day. Would we tell those parents upon a merger, nope sorry back to 1/2 time? There is something to be said for the standardization of both curriculum and programs across the district, that this would bring.
As for the “extras” that are again mentioned, custodial costs would be the same. Each room would be no dirtier and they are cleaned at the end of the day anyway along with every other room. Cafeteria costs? Again, marginal, as families pay for lunches or utilize the free and reduced programs. As for supplies, I think we would all be surprised at the volume of supplies each individual teacher in that entire school supply to their classrooms out of their own pockets. Though Kindergarten may not be mandatory, it is fast becoming essential. So, though VT does not mandate it, I am curious to see the data for where the students who did not have kindergarten, full or 2/3 day are when they enter first grade. I suspect we would find that a majority lag behind their peers quite substantially.
I think it is time. I notice that Patricia created her account here in order to spread her view point. I created my account, in order to offer a counter point to hers. It is my hope that the community will see the value in both of our positions and make their own informed decision. Again, I want to know that I am part of a democratic society full of critical thinkers; each of them capable of making their own informed decisions.
I know that nothing will convince those rooted in their belief to change those beliefs. Patricia’s position is certainly valued within our community and that’s good. She certainly makes a logical case for her position. I hope that she feels the same about me, when she and her peers reflect upon our discussion. I think we have done a reasonable job of presenting both sides to this coin and I do not think we can effectively push this discussion any further. Just as we do in the research, we have a stalemate, with no one side the victor.
As I said, my intention was to be the counterpoint, in this discussion. I feel that this discussion has run its course and valuable ground was gained on both sides. Now it is up to the community to decide, should the BFA Fairfax schools institute a full day kindergarten program or not? Again at ZERO impact this budget cycle. The research on this topic, if anything, is inconclusive. There is no such thing as an absolute, (except absolute zero), as nothing happens ALL the time. Not ALL research says just one thing about this topic. So, research aside, we must ask ourselves, is it worth it? Is the cost money wise too great? Is the cost of a full day on our children too great? Is the cost of voting down a budget in the best interest of every child? These questions and many others are the ones we as voters must consider as we go to town meeting and subsequently to the polls to formally vote. Though I hope community members vote yes, because I believe the cost of not voting yes is way too high, I understand the opposite perspective enough to respect it.
So, I encourage people to use reason and passion when making this decision. Individually each of these ideas are powerful, however, we can lose sight of the forest for the trees when we decide using exclusively one or the other. Don’t let your passion for a subject, rule your reason. For, it is when we combine the two, that we make truly powerful, meaningful and important decisions.
I think it is time for me to say thank you to you Patricia and Co., for this opportunity and to Henry Raymond for the forum, (both literally and figuratively). I will see you at the polls.
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The case for civility in kindly and thoughfully expressing one's opinions is beautifully exemplified on this thread - kudos to all.
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I was going to comment on that - What a truly good group of commenters
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vote no!!!!!!!!!
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rod anode....for once I agree with you!!!
No way No how does it cost "nothing", but I am glad comments have been civil! Thanks Henry! I don't think we should close this as there may be others that may want to offer their thoughts........nicely!
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Again to clarify misinformation, I did not register just to post my view point as Counselor stated and did. I registered on February 20, 2006; this is clearly seen if you click on my profile.
I began this thread to notify the public, as my title indicates, that full-day kindergarten was snuck into the budget without advance public notice at the final budget meeting held on January 10th. I then listened carefully to chatter around town for a few days, watched this very forum, and engaged in conversation with many community members following this board vote. The news continued to be silent; no one knew about the vote, no one knew that full-day kindergarten was before the board, and no one knew it was up for a vote to be included in the FY2012 school budget. The public was still not being notified that this very divisive issue was entered into the budget at the last minute that taxpayers would then be asked to vote on. This troubled me deeply.
As I have continued to state, the budget process must be open, honest, and transparent at all times. When it is not, trust is damaged. Every time the topic of full-day kindergarten has been properly warned on the school board agenda, people from both sides have shown up, voiced their opinions, and asked questions of our administrators and board members. As I will continue to state, this time our communities’ right to have this opportunity was denied to us. The agenda, posted late the prior week, just references "kindergarten" as an item to be discussed (not voted upon) and that it would be discussed after the passage of the FY2012 budget. There was no notice that this was going to be discussed as a budget item or program addition during the January 10th meeting so people would know to attend and voice their opinion. You cannot say this was adequately discussed in a public forum if no one knew it was going to be discussed except those select few who were solicited by school employees to go and support it.
This forum is a wonderful resource for our community (many thanks over to Henry); but not everyone reads it, most certainly not everyone that has an opinion posts it here, and it doesn’t replace the boards’ and administration’s legal responsibility to warn the public properly of agenda items. I do appreciate the discourse this forum allows community members to engage in. I personally have enjoyed using it for years to keep myself informed about the little happenings around our community that you can truly enjoy in a small connected community like ours.
Having said this, there are never zero budget implications when a recurring program is added. All board members and the administration stated in open session on January 10th that the costs for full-day kindergarten would be included in the general school budget for FY2013; this means that Fairfax taxpayers would then pay the $25,000 plus any salary increases and additional program expenses fully. I will be the first to admit that I don’t understand all the nuances of Medicaid dollars versus general budget dollars in compiling a school budget. The federal Medicaid funds being used are derived from taxes as well though. The only reasons Medicaid dollars are being used this year to fund the additional cost to add full-day kindergarten instead of these expenses being directly placed in the general school budget are: 1. the board could still state it met the Challenge and 2. an additional $25,000 would have had to be cut from the general school budget in order to add in this program and still allow the board to meet the Challenge. Did these Medicaid dollars suddenly appear overnight? No. If full-day kindergarten was something the administration wanted to advocate for, then it should have been done so in an open, honest, and transparent way over the course of the many budget discussions and meetings the board held this year that would have allowed the public its right to comment on the issue. Instead, the board and administration told the public that it would not be a part of the FY2012 budget. Then, suddenly and without notice, the administration and board made an about-face and slid it in the budget without advance public warning.
This further strikes me as deceptive to sneak in a controversial program for one year with the advertising that it will not cost anything and then hit the taxpayers with the full cost (again the roughly $25,000 plus the salary increases and additional program expenses, if we trust the current figure provided by this administration) the following year as part of the general FY2013 budget. Would the public even be notified of the breakdown of costs at that point because it is an existing program? Or would it be hidden in the general ‘kindergarten’ line item for the budget for the year? I personally don’t trust that the taxpayers would be notified.
I went to the January 10th school board meeting to speak out against staff members petitioning in the school hallways during school hours. This was important to me because our local Success By Six program received calls from parents who were made to feel uncomfortable by this because they were not in support of full-day kindergarten. I was shocked to say the least when full-day kindergarten came up for a vote to be included in the FY2012 budget while I was sitting there. I felt intentionally deceived by the agenda, the board, and the administration. The agenda posted for this meeting clearly sold this as an item that would not be discussed as part of the FY2012 budget that was to be voted upon that very night. This is compounded again by the board and administration haven clearly told the public that this program was not going to be added for FY2012 as well.
Yes, I was able to speak out against full-day kindergarten during this meeting because I was accidentally sitting there. Another parent who had been approached to sign the petition who was opposed to full-day kindergarten was also there and spoke in opposition. It saddened and troubled me greatly to think of all the voices that went unheard and unsolicited from the board and administration that night. My thought went out immediately to all the families and community members who I personally know who are opposed to full-day kindergarten, the ones I don’t know who are opposed, and those who are undecided who could have asked questions and been part of the discussion who would wake up the next morning not knowing something that was important to them was so silently snuck in the budget.
There are a number of people who won’t speak their opinion because of fear of public backlash or ridicule that sometimes comes from publicizing an opinion. It is difficult for parents and community members to speak publicly against a position that both an administration and their children’s past, current, or future teachers hold. What is great about the country we live in is that we have an Australian ballot voting system. People in our community get to go into the voting booth on Town Meeting Day and cast a vote or an opinion completely on their own. This is where all registered voters in our community get to speak. I have publicly stated I will be voting NO to this budget for many reasons. The two main reasons are that I do not support full-day kindergarten and that I do not support back-door attempts to slide in controversial programming without advance public notice.
The unfortunate position the board and administration have put the community of Fairfax in with their actions on January 10th is that most people will go into the voting booth and vote on a budget that they do not know includes full-day kindergarten. It was my hope in making this post to do my small part to alert the community to this slide-in item.
Frankly, I find it irresponsible to suggest that if the budget is voted down, that other programs may be lost like drama and so we should just support the budget. This is simply a scare tactic. If the budget contains items you do not support, it is your right and responsibility to do your part to vote it down and make your voice heard.
As far as what will happen, if consolidation occurs between Fairfax and Fletcher regarding the kindergarten programs, that will ultimately be up to the new Board and the people of both communities.
As for my statements regarding the research being irresponsible, I would encourage you each to read the research reports I cited and re-read my statements. I did not say the research says nothing that could be read as support for full-day kindergarten. The research I cited were compilations of research from around the country done by the US Department of Education and by a think tank (Rand) at the behest of Congress; they were not just based on one study. I said the research I cited clearly states that the evidence demonstrates that full-day kindergarten does not provide a lasting effect. That is all I said. That is not irresponsible, it is re-stating what these very reports state. I find it ironic that for years the biggest trump card supporters of full-day kindergarten, especially the school administrators and faculty, seemed to think they had was that "all the research supports the benefits of full-day kindergarten.” Now that research is pointed out to the public to demonstrate that this is not the case, all of sudden the research simply results in a stalemate and we should not even be talking about it.
I am not Patricia and Co. I am a mom, a wife, a teacher, a daughter, an employee, a community and school volunteer, and community member among many other hats that each individual invariably wears throughout the course of their everyday life. I am also a Fairfax taxpayer who will be voting NO to the FY2012 school budget.
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Just to clarify:
1) By Patricia and Co, I was simply referring to those on this forum that have been kind enough to participate and/or lurk in this conversation. Any other inference is solely the responsibility of the reader.
2) When you vote down a budget, ANYTHING in that budget can be eliminated. NOT just the item you disagree with. A boards first assumption when a budget is voted down, is that it is too expensive. The natural consequence of that is to cut money. My statement that the board will/may cut programs and thus $$$ is not intended to be a scare tactic, but reality.
3) Again, when you make the statement: “The research, however, does not support the notion that full-day kindergarten provides any lasting advantage”. The, “the research” in that statement, expects the reader to infer that ALL research, “… does not support the notion that full-day kindergarten provides any lasting advantage”. My point was simply, that this is not the case. ALL research does not say this. Some may indeed make this conclusion. Other studies may find that there is a lasting impact. Which leads me too…
4) … My statement that we have come to an impasse with the research argument was to simply acknowledge that there is equal justification in the research on both sides, to either support or fight against full day kindergarten. What it boils down to is: what do each of us think is in the best interest of children, period.
5) My statement that you created your profile to post your thoughts was indeed off. I apologize. However, your profile also states that you have made six total posts here, all six of them in this forum. Again, I appreciate each one of them. Even though I may not agree with you, I appreciate the opportunity to have this public discourse and I hope that those who have read this have taken away one or two new pieces of info that will allow them to be informed voters, no matter how their vote may fall.
6) I know it is obvious, but I will be voting Yes on the 2012 school budget, our students and their teachers deserve our support.
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I appreciate everyone's comments and passion about the topic and I am listening to both sides.
My question was “I would like to truly hear what the teachers will do with the full day vs the current curriculum".
According to Counselor "True, there may be no curriculum additions… now, but inevitably there will be. Not to mention that the current curriculum is expansive enough as it is and adding more time will, as I stated before, allow for students to begin to own their learning"
I appreciate your response Counselor, but I guess what I am asking needs to be responded by the school board. This unfortunately did not sway me towards full days. I want the dollar amounts and I want to see improvements for the dollar amounts. If it is $50,000, yes I expect more for that. If it is $5,000 well I would not expect so much. I get the first year is FREE, but like buying something with the first year without payments or interest, I need to know what the future costs approxmiate before I say yes.
I don't just hop on bandwagons, all the other schools are doing it kinda thing, I want the facts for the Fairfax School to add more time to the Kindergarten program. If the price and future price is right, then you will have my vote for sure.
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this is truely an historic day when 3plusk agrees with me WOW
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MKR, Near as I can figure, there are two documents that should be considered. The first, is the curriculum documents that can be found on the district website. They list the pre-K through 12 curriculum for English, Math, Science, Social Studies and Technology (http://www.bfafairfax.com/pages/curriculum.html (http://www.bfafairfax.com/pages/curriculum.html)). From the looks of it, the posted curriculum is quite comprehensive here and after looking at it before responding to you, I wonder if it is feasible for students and teachers to complete the outlined curriculum in a full day program let alone the existing ⅔ day program.
The next document is no less daunting. This is the document published by the state of Vermont and lists Vermont’s Framework of Standards and Learning Opportunities (http://education.vermont.gov/new/pdfdoc/pubs/framework.pdf (http://education.vermont.gov/new/pdfdoc/pubs/framework.pdf)). From the states DOE website, they say that this document was created to:
1. To provide a structure from which standards-based district, school, and classroom curriculum can be developed, organized, implemented, and assessed.
2. To provide the basis for the development of a state, local, and classroom comprehensive assessment system.
3. To make explicit what may be included in statewide assessments of student learning.
Patricia is correct, the state does not mandate kindergarten, however this document is not only exhaustively comprehensive, but clearly outlines standards for Pre-K through grade 12. Not mandated, but exhaustively outlined.
I do not know if this completely answers your question or not, though I do not think it does, because we have not heard from the district as to their expectations for the move to full day. Will they expect teachers to add more content? Or will they be expected to ensure that all students meet the standards outlined here? In my opinion it seems impossible for them to thoroughly cover the current expectations in existing school day in a manner that ensures an enduring understanding for all students.
*I tried to post these sites as links but could not figure out the link editor, sorry.
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MKR is correct that the only people that can accurately answer the questions about curriculum are the board and administration. They failed to provide the public with their opportunity to ask these questions with their actions on January 10th. However, the public has been told repeatedly that the kindergarten curriculum will not have any additions or expansions to it by the administration in open sessions at repeated school board meetings and in their 2008 fact sheet.
As for the current curriculum, the easiest document to read through when trying to ascertain what it consists of for kindergarten students at BFA-Fairfax is the kindergarten report card itself. It clearly outlines the learning goals for the students to have gained by THE END of kindergarten and is in alignment with the DOE grade level expectations. The Grade Level Expectations for kindergarten students can be found broken down by each grade level and content area by visiting http://www.education.vermont.gov/new/html/pubs/framework.html .
For those interested, here is a copy the BFA-Fairfax Kindergarten report card for ease:
(bold items are the topic headings)
Social Development:
-demonstrates respect for self and others
-performs effectively in a group
-gets along well with others
-stays on task
-participates in class
-follows directions
-manages transitions between activities
-demonstrates physical self-control
-manages feelings and frustrations effectively
Language Arts: Reading:
Reading Strategies: Demonstrates concepts of print by:
Identifying key parts of book (front, back, print, illustrations)
Distinguishing between printed letters and words
Identifying first and last parts of a word
Following text with finger pointing and demonstrates left to right and top to bottom directionality
Meets standard for recognizing all upper and lower case letters
Recognizes and produces rhyming words
Segments words into syllables
Identifies letter/sound relationship
Spends time with a book as a choice
Reading Comprehension: Reads for meaning, demonstrating both initial understanding and personal response to what is read
Responds to simple questions about a books content
Identifies and interprets key elements of a story
Reading Accuracy:
Meets kindergarten text level standards (From VT Dept. of Education Literacy Grade Level Expectations formatted by grade level “• Reading approximately 20 high-frequency words, including names, environmental print, sight words (as appropriate to the child’s personal and classroom experiences)”)
Writing Development:
Pictorial: Simple pictures
Details pictures with verbal story
Letterer: pictures with random letters
Copier: uses words visible in classroom
Labeler: writes names and important part of a picture
Sound maker: uses the inventive speller (letter sound connection)
Writing Conventions:
Writes left to right, top to bottom
Begins to use spaces
Writes his or her own name
Uses correct spelling and/or phonetic skills to attempt a close approximation
Mathematics:
Counts backwards from 10
Counts 1-20, 1-35, 1-50
Reads numbers 1-20, 1-35, 1-50
Sorts objects using numbers
Orders numbers 1-20, 1-35, 1-50
Explores addition and subtraction (10 or less)
Recognizes nickel, penny, and dime by name and face value
Identifies circle, triangle, rectangle, and square
Draws four basic shapes
Measures with non-standard units
Identifies clock and calendar as measurement tools
Recognizes, describes, and extends simple patterns
Sorts and classifies objects
Interprets graphs and tally charts
Makes predictions based on mathematical data
Identifies ordinal numbers to the 10th place (1st, 2nd, etc)
Solves story problems for quantities to 10 with manipulatives or drawings
Social Studies:
My History: Past and Present
Map skills
Interacting in positive ways
Science:
Weather
Living and non-living
Sorting and classifying: liquids and solids
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people that rent should not be allowed to vote on school budgets
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Although I support full day kindergarten and therefore disagree with Patricia, I am thankful for her making all of this public knowledge and starting the conversation we are all having. If it wasn't for Patricia, how would we have known? So thank you.
That's all I got.
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I would like to know how it is going to change my taxes.
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oh im sure they will shuck and jive you and tell you it wont cost anymore ,thats what they did here in fletcher and most of them bought it now we all have to pay for it
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3 Full Days of Kindergarten starting at 8:10, ending at 2:45. Is this Mon., Wed., Friday? What happens the other two days?
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I think it means 3 classrooms for 5 days with 1 teacher and a para in each room.
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Food for thought:
"More than three-quarters of Vermont’s elementary schools offer full-day kindergarten, up sharply in the past several years, said Manuela Fonseca, the early education coordinator for the Vermont Department of Education."
http://www.stowetoday.com/waterbury_record/news/article_81042504-f7c8-11df-b527-001cc4c002e0.html
"Among public school kindergartners, 54 percent attended a full-day program." in 1999
Dept of Education: Institute of Educational Services
We are the research arm of the U.S. Department of Education, and by law our activities must be free of partisan political influence.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2004/web/2004078.asp
Take a look at the Grade Expectations set by the Vermont Dept of Education. I can see why the administrators feel they need a full day to teach what is required by the State.
http://www.education.vermont.gov/new/html/pubs/framework.html
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Family time is disappearing .... Mother & Father spend sometime with your kids while they are still kids!
I vote NO to Full Day DAY CARE/Kindergarten at Tax Payers Expense!
VOTE = NO
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I think we push our kids to grow up to fast.
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To Mummy and red, Bravo, thank you for saying it!
To Rod, we get what we vote for. Shouldn't we be more vocal at town meeting time? I would like to see a Board that will stand up to the teachers and union and bargain for what taxpayers feel is justified, not to the union demands and scare tactics. Have you checked out Fletcher Elementary's student scores on the 'net. Pathetic. Can't wait to see the upcoming town report and budget. Let's see if the major increase in expense is teacher's contracts. OK, I'm done venting now.
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fletch ,the problem is I didnt vote for it I voted against it,but I still got it but I dont want it ,ive been told to be happy for it
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Yup, we all have to live with votes that didn't go our way. Can we say Shumlin? Just kidding, well sort of :-) As we know by reading all the topics of discussion, we're entitled to our opinions and differences.
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hhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my side hurts
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During the 1/10/11 board meeting, kindergarten teachers told the board that with the additional time a full-day would provide they would be able to spend more time with individual students, meet the needs of the current intervention or ‘at-risk’ students within the full-day setting (currently addressed by having the small group stay for a full-day four days a week), and have time to enrich the individual needs of those students above grade level standards.
What is the time per student difference between a 2/3 and a full day? With our extended or 2/3 day program (4 classrooms & teachers from 8:10am-12:00pm next year), children are at school for 3 hours 50 minutes or 230 minutes/day. Using the average enrollment of 60, there are 15 students per class. Dividing 230 by 15 shows the teachers average 15.33 minutes per student per day. With a full-day program (3 classrooms & teachers from 8:10am-2:45pm next year), the children are at school for 6 hours 35 minutes or 395 minutes/day. Using the same enrollment, there are 20 students per class. Dividing 395 by 20 shows the teachers average 19.75 minutes per student per day. Subtracting extended day minutes from full-day minutes shows a total gain of 4.42 minutes per student per day. Multiplying 178 school days by the 4.42 minutes equals a total overall gain of 786.76 minutes or 13.11 hours or less than 2 full days for the school year. Going further to deduce the amount of academic time gained to provide the more individualized instruction promised by going to full-day, subtract 60 from full-day minutes for the non-academic additions of recess and lunch and do the same math. This shows teachers average 16.75 minutes per student per day. This provides a total academic time gain of 1.42 minutes per student per day. This equals a gain of 252.76 minutes or 4.21 hours or less than 1 full day for the school year.
From a simplistic fiscal standpoint, how much does this one day of added academic time cost?
Taking the 1/10/11 presented figure of $22,539 as the cost of adding full-day kindergarten and dividing it by the 60 kindergarteners, we find the average additional cost per kindergartener for this one day equals $375.65.
How does this compare with the average cost per student across the rest of the budget?
Taking the budget figure without full-day kindergarten included of $11,211,727 and dividing it by the last available enrollment estimate of all BFA-Fairfax students of 960, we will find the average cost per student per year. To find the cost per student for one day, divide the yearly cost per student by the 178 school days for next year. This equals a cost of $65.61 per student per day.
We seem to have lost sight of the role of parents and childcare providers in the lives and education of our children because there is so much pressure. There is so much pressure on teachers to meet standards that it skews how people begin looking at the big picture. Everyone is doing what they have been conditioned to do—pushing larger expectations and pressures onto younger children. However, moving to a full-day is not the only way to address the pressures. Teachers and administration perceive and publicize that longer days are the only way to give them more space and time to deal with the increased pressures and provide the children with more individualized instruction. I would contend that by adding the 4th classroom and reducing class size, we have already provided them the additional space. It is not meaningful for our community to add a program if it is not quality. Quality means fewer numbers and more one-on-one time, not more hours in a day.
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First off, I question how you came to determine that these numbers are anywhere close to accurate? Not to mention where did you gather all your information from? IF the information is indeed accurate, I question if this is even a viable approach/ argument. Your argument centers around time. How do you qualitatively or even quantifiably measure student relationships and their connections with adults? If you elect to disregard everything that really happens in a classroom, you can try to argue against full day kindergarten utilizing just the numbers i.e.: "time" with students. However, any individual willing to spend real time with students and teachers in the classroom knows that "time" in the above argument is really quite arbitrary and only really paints half the picture.
Schools are often a safe place for our students. In many cases a student’s home life is non-existent and/or worse and just being in the classroom with a caring teacher is enough to spur these students onto great achievements. Clearly, the more this can happen, the better. There is a plethora of research out there to support this argument as well. Resiliency in students is a powerful thing and they (students) frequently cite these adult connections, as being essential components to their current and future success. Connections are made because adults care. What may be enough for one child is not enough for another. Teachers move from one student to another, connecting with each one... caring about every child and each of their small tastes of success. To attempt to quantify this element of time down to the minute is hard to fathom and seems to me to be rather myopic.
If parents are so infallible, why then did I watch a child crinkle cellophane chip wrappers and then pee on the floor at the last board meeting, in front of their parent, who did not seem to care that their child distracted the room from matters at hand. They then asked someone else to help clean up the mess? Just what did this parent teach this child? That it is OK to distract others and when you make a mess you can expect others to clean up after you? Why do some boys come to school and feel the need to "mark their territory"? Why do some children come to school not potty trained at all? Why are schools teaching social skills and bullying/ harassment at all? If parents are infallible, these should all be taught at home, no? The fact of the matter is that not all parents are perfect. Thus, schools are tasked with not only educational expectations, but also hygiene, social et. al. expectations. Are these skills not the responsibilities of families and not our schools? Educators will work night and day to mold students into contributing members of a democratic society, even if it means working on potty training, but they need time. More time to meet these educational and social expectations for student learning. More time to care for the children in their charge.
You speak from a very tall pulpit about children needing their parents and how full day kindergarten is not essential etc. Today, we live in a culture where it is routine for both parents to work. Teachers who used to have too many classroom volunteers, today struggle to get just one or two a week. I am certain is not because the parents do not care, but because they do not have the time. They have their own responsibilities and are working to support themselves. Because parents all have their own sets of responsibilities, education today must then focus on the educational system and the educators in it. I know I am taking some liberties here, but if we use your time argument against a full day program, where do these children go at the end of their school day? Most of them go to some sort of child care program. Yes, a few of them may go home but most do not. If more time in the classroom is bad, how is more unstructured time on a bus even close to being a good thing? Not to mention the savings to the district if we could cut out that mid-day bus run and only have the AM and PM runs...
Kids need caring educators. If we bog ourselves down in the minutia of little things, we lose the big picture. The big picture is indeed increased money for the school budget in coming years. However, the big picture is increasing student time with caring adults. It is essential and cannot be quantified or even qualitatively measured. It is essential that our students meet the ever expanding educational expectations. If we cannot count on all parents to do this equally, we must then provide this same level of service to all children district wide. This can then only be done in a structured, standardized fashion.
If the argument against full day, is just that, the full day, what is to be said about the inherent craziness that several transitions in a day can bring about? AS I mentioned earlier, many students in our system come to school and are then subsequently bused to their various child care providers. This is OK with you? At least with full day kindergarten kids are in one place for the full day and they are not transitioning from school and then to childcare. How much time is OK to spend on a bus in transition to the child's care provider? If we are talking about time, I believe time in the classroom far outranks time on a bus! DO NOT waste my child's time this way when we could instead provide instruction in a nurturing, caring environment throughout the day! Time is indeed precious, your point here is indeed well taken. However, I want my child’s day/time full of learning and exploration both structured and non-structured, not taking another unstructured bus ride and making another unnecessary transition.
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I think we all want the same thing in the long run. We should not make this topic personal. Times are hard and money is tight for a a lot of families. Just because something works in another place does not mean it will work everywhere.
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"Scare tactics" are present on both sides. Calling full day kindergarten "full day child care" is no less of a scare tactic / falsehood than some claims on the pro full day side.
Focusing on unstructured bus time, and disruptive transitions doesn't hold a lot of weight as a supportive arguement either. As pointed out, Many kids are going from school to a daycare whether it is at noon, or 3 pm. The same additional transition exist, as well as unstructured bussing time.
Now, focusing on elimination of additional bus runs in the middle fo the day as a cost savings, that's a good arguement (assuming the existing afternoon run has the capacity to carry the kids without having to add additional buses).
Also, you could argue the amount of time spent on the bus per day verses in the classroom. Full day offers MORE class / school time for the same amount of bus time. Kind of like working 4 ten hour days - more work time per time spent traveling.
The point about teachers and schools having to teach skills that should be taught at home is a very valid arguement (in my opinion). It does take away from academic instructional time.
As pointed out already, for many families, both parents work to support the family. Those kids are going to some sort of daycare after school. The lucky ones may go to a relatives after school. With this in mind, the arguement that full day kindergarten takes away from family time carries little weight, but the plea for parents to spend more time with their kids is always good to repeat.
Kids are pushed harder these days in many aspects of life. So are many adults. Until we change our society AND the world to recognize the benefits of slowing down, we will continue to be in an increasingly competitive world. A world in which some students are going to school 6 days a week to learn more, and gain an edge over other students/citizens to lift themselves and their society/culture to the top of the world order. Like it or not, that is the way our society is pushing all of us. If we (as a country) would like to continue to be a global leader, the best thing we can do is provide our kids the best opportunities to learn as much as they can. Many kids do NOT receive those opportunities at home, so I believe many kids will benefit more from additional classroom time.
Education is expensive, but the cost of ignorance (non-education) is immeasurably higher.
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those who rent shouldn't get to vote on school budgets???
Unless in a fixed rent rate unit, the cost of property to the landlord if passed along to the tenant in the form of higher rent.
(I don't rent, but my parents always did when i was growing up - annual rent increases were common, along with moves to more affordable housing)
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“Focusing on unstructured bus time, and disruptive transitions doesn't hold a lot of weight as a supportive argument either. As pointed out, Many kids are going from school to a daycare whether it is at noon, or 3 pm. The same additional transition exist, as well as unstructured bussing time.”
Just to clarify here, I simply meant, I would prefer not to have this transition happen in the middle of the day, if it can happen at the end of the day. The more stuctured classtime, the better.
“Education is expensive, but the cost of ignorance (non-education) is immeasurably higher.”
I could not agree more. I have attempted to point this out throughout this discussion, just not as succinctly as you.
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cedar a lot of the people that rent get government subsudies and really dont pay what you are saying but have a lot of kids going to daycare i mean school
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I say let the teachers teach and give them what they need. It would appear that we do have a lot of less than fortunate situations with kids and as a parent I have no problem paying taxes to help them. Teachers are asked to deal with a lot of crap when all they want to do is teach. I think the most important thing to think about is this. How hard is it to play catch up in the 1st grade. These kids are coming with all sorts of issues and they are expected to "meet standards". I have the upmost respect for teachers especially the ones we have here. BFA teachers as a whole are wonderful. If you have a problem paying for schools than you have more problems that just that. Let the teachers teach and let the kids learn. If they need more time to learn give it to them. We are talking about kids. Not the adults that make bad decisions that require us to raise their kids (including potty training, hygiene, feeding and clothing) That problem is ours before they get to kindergarten. If we can help, lets help. Not just put a dollar amount to it and turn it into a political mess. The teachers need our support and so do the kids. If you have a problem with letting the professionals make these decisions for us than get involved. I have the upmost respect for teachers and would never want to be one. I choose to stay in my box and help when I can. I vote that that is one job that requires a pay raise and 4 months paid vacation. Vote YES Ed. You will be a better man for it.
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your wacked shellie ,pay raise ?4 months vacation? higher taxes? im tellin thor
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Thor would give his eye and teeth for some of those teachers we talk of and the kids. It is the parents he could do without. He uses a very simple minded mans theory. Always do the right thing regardless of who is watching. The right thing would be for all of us to stay in our box and let the teachers teach for criminey sakes. That is one profession where it is obvious they give a ____ about the kids otherwise no one in their right mind would take on all those challenges and their parents. For each child you have 2 parents with opinions. No way Ed. That scares me just thinking about it.
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Most teachers do get a decent salary, especially when you figure in the benefits, & the actual hours they work. Not all people get a "liveable wage" Shelly, nor do they get 3 mos vacation @ their job. Check with daycare providers either on their own or working @ a center.... they care for & teach children ALL day for long days with no breaks or "specials" we have for school kids. I'm not sure of what others feel, & yes we have SOME great teachers, but my pockets simply are not that deep; I have not had a pay raise in 3 or more years, BUT all my expenses have gone up & I still feel very lucky to have a job! So again I say NO to the budget, NO to increase taxes @ this stage of the game! I just wonder what was removed from the budget in order to let full - K go in; seems there are always cutbacks.....unless a certain elite few want something passed & know the angles to "sneak" something in!
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I have a minor in education. I was one class away from a major, and a 2ndary education teaching career. I loved teaching. I heard over and over how the students are easier to work with than the parents. Fortunately, I was never in a position as a temp/substitute/assistant to have to deal with parents much.
Ed, I haven't seen the stats on Fletcher, but Fairfax averages $10K-20K (depending on the stats being used) over the VT average household income. I would be surprised if rent subsidies are prevalent here in Fairfax.
I've been doing some research on schools through VT Department of Education. The expenditure per student for BFA is over $3000 BELOW the VT state average, while the schools Reading, Science, Math, and Writing testing scores are ABOVE the VT state averages (keep in mind the VT public schools have consistently ranked in the top 5 in the US for the last several years).
It looks to me like the staff (administration and Teachers) are doing their jobs WELL.
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When you consider a teacher's day, please consider the hours spent at home grading papers and preparing lessons for the next day. Most of the teachers I know spend hours each night and some time on the weekends getting ready to deliver a quality education to their students.
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cedar,i can say with confidence there are quit a few in town and just remember these are high turnover properties so they vote to jack up the taxes then they move out a few years later
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3plusk. You do know that was a joke right. I am not saying give teachers a raise this year or 4 months off. I am saying leave them alone. After they buy the cloths, supplies, food, etc for these kids and complete their necessary classed and prepare their rooms and order their supplies and yada yada yada, They may have a couple of weeks to themselves if they are lucky. Not to mention the hearache they carry at all times. Teaching is not a bowl of cherries like some think. It is a very demanding job and obviously under judgment by everyone all the time to defend their pay check. What would we do without them? Say they got tired of all the bull and went on strike. Then what. All I am saying is I have the upmost respect and can only trust that what they are asking for is needed to accomplish "meeting expectations" with the projected numbers which include "children with disabilities" If you have 5 challenging children in your class you may not be able to teach 20 kids and get through to them all. Maybe you need to cut numbers by 3. I am talking out of my box now so I will shut up but you get the idea.
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Where would any of us be if we had not been inspired by a teacher in some small way? Do we quibble vociferously when the teams we love, the writers we love, or the concert hall/ musicians we love raise their salaries and pass the increase in personal demands onto us, the consumer? We still buy the music, the cable channel (NESN, MSG, ESPN etc), we buy the NFL Package, NHL Package and anything else that brings us closer to the team we love. We keep buying and thus supporting the artists and their needs. Teachers in any district across this great country of ours are not making anywhere close to comparable salaries. Yet we vehemently and often blindly rail against them when they politely ask for more money to simply do their jobs. They are not entertaining us or even enthralling us with their feats of athletic prowess. They are simply and humbly teaching our children. They do not play guitar, sing, write books, shoot a puck, pass a ball, throw a devastating curve ball, tackle a defenseless quarterback or even conduct the Boston Pops. They teach our kids! Perhaps the next great passer, conductor, or writer will be be in one of these classes. Perhaps the next orator, astronaut, President or CEO will emerge from humble Fairfax.
If teachers really wanted, they could hold us all accountable and ask for comparable salaries. What would we say then? If we could calculate down to the minute the amount of time a teacher spends with our children I would ask you, what is the true hourly wage of a teacher? Is it even close to what a baseball pitcher makes per inning? or even pitch? We pay the athlete what they demand without question, but not the teacher. Where is the sense in that? However, they do not ask to be paid the same. They just ask for a reasonable, livable wage and enough money to teach our kids. Not just the smart ones, the talented ones, the athletic ones, the ones who sing like angels or the one who come from the broken home and makes our hearts bleed when we hear their story. They teach EVERY kid!
If you want an easy target to bash willy-nilly, turn your attention to the B or the NY on the hat sitting on your head. Paying someone 250 MILLION dollars to hit a ball? Where is the logic in that? Sure its fun to watch and infinitely more exciting than watching someone teach math, but think of what our schools could do with just a tenth of that money! What is this nations overall defense budget? Why do we consistently cut funding for educational programs that are designed to protect our children and move our country to land on mars and into the next century? What could they do in education with just a fraction of this money?
Teachers, teach, not for the money. They teach for that “Fiat Lux” moment. The moment they see the light go on in their students eyes. That “Ah-Ha” moment. They are not greedy and selfish. Ask a teacher for a moment of their time and they will give you an hour. Be it before school, after school or over the summer, if a student needs help or has a question, they are there. They are kind and considerate well meaning individuals. Even though their community speaks out against them, they are back at school every day, every year, teaching the children, no matter what anyone says about them. Can we all say that about ourselves?
Teachers do not ask for respect. Teachers work hard for our children and us as parents to earn that respect. Knowledge, like respect, is earned. Is it not time we showed our teachers a bit of respect? Teachers cannot instill knowledge, they can only lead us to the threshold and launch us, to explore, to delve deeper on our own. Instilling the enthusiasm and zest for learning that will sustain us for a lifetime. Can we, should we, even try to quantify that? Is this not as valuable a life skill as hitting a ball? I would argue it is infinitely even more valuable!
I urge those who would blindly implore others to follow them into voting down the school budget to walk a mile in the shoes of a teacher. Any teacher. Could we do the same job if we put ourselves in their shoes? Experience a classroom. Teach science through Four Winds. Volunteer to help with a reading group. Observe. Learn. Open new and exciting doors. Ignite a passion. Walk a child to the office so they can take a bath and put on clean clothes. Buy the paper, markers, pencils, batteries for calculators etc out of your own pocket because the budget is not deep enough. Be the pariah in your community at budget time. Walk a mile in a teachers shoes. Then feel free to try and make that same “No” vote.
Any hard working professional deserves the opportunity to earn our respect. We should not blindly disrespect any profession. I sincerely ask, that our community respect and trust the teachers we send our children to every day. They have done nothing to any of us that would demonstrate otherwise.
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I am feeling terribly sad that Counselor may actually perceive parents and providers as he/she presented them in his/her January 31st post, especially since Counselor appears to be an educator in our school.
What is striking me throughout these posts is the use of broad-based statements by pro-full day advocates about looking at the big picture and their avoidance of the details; the devil is in the details and the lack of any lasting impact is in the research.
Pro-full day advocates always claimed that research was the reason to go to full-day, but when faced with opposing research then we needed to call a stalemate. Then we needed to focus on the additional time teachers would gain with each student by moving to a full-day like our non-comparable ˝ day counterparts did, but when faced with minute analysis then it is arbitrary.
Now the implication seems to be we must move to full days because teachers are the only caring adults and the only ones competent and skilled enough to make positive impacts in most children’s lives. Underlying this is that if we don’t say yes to full-day kindergarten then we are not being supportive of our school and our teachers who are the ones dedicated to our children. By adding the 4th classroom and reducing class size, we already provided the additional space and time for teachers and children. Teachers make more of an impact on individual students when class size is reduced. With the small group based intervention program, we have provided the extra support some children may need for any number of reasons. With the addition of full-day kindergarten, this cost and time effective program will dissolve and the children specifically identified as needing more time will consequently receive less time for direct instruction. Counselor stated, “What may be enough for one child is not enough for another.” The intervention program addresses this concern already.
We do live in a culture that has more and more working parents. However, we need to look at our community. In Fairfax, there is a large percentage of stay-at-home parents as well as working parents who stagger their work schedules so one parent is there with the children during non-school hours. A large number of our kindergarten students do go home at noon. Those who do not go home go to caring and capable childcare providers who provide them with love, lunch and snack, rest, kisses and hugs, read them stories, play games with them, talk to them, and otherwise provide structured and unstructured opportunities to enrich their lives on a daily basis while they await their parent’s arrival. The research does state that children need one adult who truly cares about them; it doesn’t say teacher.
The cost of the noon bus run was already removed to get the $22,539 figure presented at the 1/10/11 meeting and used in my calculations.
The current noon bus run is only comprised of kindergarteners who are not picked up split between 3 and 4 buses depending on the year. The afternoon bus run, which currently lasts an hour for some, carries students on it from the kindergarten intervention program through grade 12 that do not have other transportation. Adding additional kindergarten bodies to this afternoon run would impact the length of the bus ride. If the length of the bus ride is a concern, the shorter one is at noon.
This board and administration are asking the community of Fairfax to permanently increase the school budget for a full-day kindergarten program in these economic times without even telling us about its inclusion. Even in good economic times, this is reason enough to vote NO to the school budget.
This board and administration are asking the community of Fairfax to give raises to certain kindergarten teachers and para-educators at the same time some staff are losing their jobs, some staff are having their pay cut, students are having time with other teachers in the school building cut, and programs that benefited our children have been cut or eliminated. This is reason enough to vote NO to the school budget.
This board and administration are asking the community of Fairfax to permanently raise school taxes to pay for a full-day program that research clearly states has NO lasting impact and will increase class size in order to gain 1.42 minutes of direct teacher time per day per student. This is reason enough to vote NO to the school budget.
By the way, I am a teacher so I have walked several miles in a teacher’s shoes. This discussion is not about the nobility of the teaching profession; it is about full-day kindergarten.
I will be voting NO.
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Patricia: I do not know you so forgive me. I just want to ask this. Did you or your husband have a falling out with any school board or school members in the last year? You seem so adament about NO full day kindergarden and claim to be a teacher. Why do you feel so different than most teachers if that is the case?. I am just curious and it would be good to know all the facts. From my guick math I get we are talking less than $7.00 a year for this. Divide that by husband and wife and wala. Math is out of my box too so forgive me if I am not close.
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I am not a teacher, nor am I employed by BFA Fairfax. I am as my user name suggests a counselor who has opportunity to converse with teachers about their students and the state of education today. Were I a faculty member, I would be compelled to disclose that fact as posting here could be construed as a conflict of interest. Much the same as you did when you indicated your relationship with a current school board member.
I am, however, a contributing member of this democratic society, a Fairfax community member and a supporter of our schools and the employees therein.
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Where am I coming from? Why do I have such a strong opinion about full-day kindergarten? How is it possible to be an educator and not support it? Why should community members listen to my opinion? These are all good questions, especially from community members like yourself who do not know me personally.
First, let me say that I graduated from Vanderbilt University with degrees in math, early childhood education, and elementary education. I hold an active teaching license and am certified from birth through grade 8. While our family made the decision allowing me to be a stay-at-home mom since the birth of our second child, I have kept my teaching license current by continuing to take college courses. I am an avid supporter of schools, teachers, and children. I am an active volunteer at BFA-Fairfax. With my oldest child, I volunteered in both his elementary and middle school classes. With our second child, I ran the Small Wonders program in his preschool class, volunteered weekly in his kindergarten classroom and during special events, and continue to volunteer weekly in his current classroom. I am very active in our school’s PTSA and have organized several teacher appreciation events. I coordinate the RIF (Reading is Fundamental) program at our school, supplying students with free books three times a year. I continue to coordinate the Hannaford Dollars program for the PTSA that I have done for several years to fund requests from teachers to provide additional opportunities to their students and activities to promote positive outcomes for our families and students. I continue to coordinate the Price Chopper Tools for Schools program that I have done for several years that has funded the elementary recess materials for several years, a digital camera for the middle school, and much more. As a Co-Liaison for our town’s Success By Six program, I have worked with the kindergarten teachers to help continue successful kindergarten transition activities for our incoming kindergarteners. Within in our Success By Six activities, we work to help prepare our communities’ youngest citizens to be prepared for school and to smooth the transition to school for parents, teachers, and children. As a Co-Liaison, I have also had the opportunity for the past few years to spend time monthly with every childcare provider in our community and have personally seen the dedication and devotion these educators bring to the children in their care while they work night and day to help mold our children as well. I wholeheartedly support our school, our teachers, and educators across the board.
However, I do not support full-day kindergarten. Being opposed to full-day kindergarten does not mean you do not support schools and teachers. Being opposed to full-day kindergarten does not mean a person is not thinking in the best interest of children. Being a teacher does not mean that you are automatically a supporter of full-day kindergarten.
My opinion and opposition to full-day kindergarten has been consistent. My opinion on these posts however has been adamant. As someone who has been involved in kindergarten discussions for the past few years and attended board meetings whenever possible on this issue, I have become completely fed up with the constant contradictions, the lack of financial clarity, the lack of feasibility studies, …. The final blow for me was when the board at the administration’s behest snuck full-day kindergarten into the FY2012 budget without even notifying the public that it was being discussed after publicly stating it was not going to be included. This level of public disrespect by our board and administration does not sit well with me. My feelings on this have been present in every post, and I apologize if my tone has offended anyone.
There are several factors I consider when casting a vote: philosophical, financial, and ethical. Even if something only costs $10, why buy it if you don’t want it? Why buy it if you don’t believe it is in the best interests of the children? Why buy it if it was acquired unethically and underhandedly? Why buy it if you have a better use for that money?
For me, it is a combination of the three factors above. I do not want to pay for something every year from here on out that I don’t believe in or support. I also do not want to send a message to the board and administration that it is okay to treat the citizens of Fairfax with such disrespect.
I do not have anything personal against any member of the school board or administration. My husband is currently a member of the board and I consider other members of the board friends. My problem in general is not with individuals of the board, but with the handling of this issue. I cannot speak for any other teacher as to why they do or do not support full-day kindergarten. I personally know teachers on both sides of the issue. I am opposed to full-day kindergarten and do not believe it is in the best interests of our community.
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Patricia, thank you for your response. I can respect your position and that is the beauty of this forum. Sometimes our tones and attitudes can be misleading. We all have a right to our own opinions and I guess that is why we get the chance to vote. Your community efforts are great. I know we all have handled situations in the past without much thought so it will be interesting to see how it all is explained at town meeting. I just have a hard time in thinking this was a strategical plot to lie to the community. I choose to give them the benefit of the doubt. See you all at town meeting. Lets all remember our tones and we should be good to go. What a great community we live in.
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In the interest of continuing the open and fun discussion, I thought I would post some of the information from big yellow school district budget flier I received in the mail Thursday. There are a few things that I find interesting, though they may ring hollow for others.
Page 2 - Full Day Kindergarten is First on the list of “Highlights”. I Quote: “Expand Kindergarten program to full-day for ALL students.” I guess the board is not trying to hide this...
Page 2 - The district is funding the ACT for ALL BFA Juniors! (If I may, I think this is great. many students do not take the college entrance exams because they do not believe they are smart enough or they cannot afford to. This is aimed, I would imagine, at increasing the percentage of students who attend post-secondary school and this can only be a good thing!)
Page 2 - Re-introduce Spring One-Acts. For anyone who has seen the last two productions this too is a win for so many students.
Page 2 - I hate to hear about staff reductions, but I do like to hear about schools reducing their use of paper and moving to more electronic media.
Middle Page (Page 3) - the estimated tax rate for FY 2012 is .02-ish lower this year than last year. This means that (according to their chart) homeowners will pay an average of $44 less towards the school budget this year. (There is a chart with the actual numbers by house site value, but I just took an average).
Page 4 - Special Education is nearly 15% of the overall budget with Direct Instruction costs accounting for 54.9%.
Last Page - Of all other local school budgets we have the LOWEST average cost per pupil at just under $10,500. The statewide average is over $12,000.
I can only think that the education our children receive for the overall cost is quite impressive. Based on these numbers I think the board and administrators have presented us with a reasonable and fair budget. Voting for said budget is in my opinion, appropriate.
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then why will the tax bill keep going up?
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Last night (2/14) the Fairfax School Board held a meeting. During this meeting, there was a community budget presentation. Unfortunately our community was not given notice of this presentation as it was not included on the yellow budget flyer that was mailed to many residents nor was it posted anywhere in our community, on the fwsu.org website, on the BFA-Fairfax website, or on the BFA-Fairfax School Board Wiki. This type of disregard to public notification laws does not instill trust in our Board and Administration, especially following the actions taken during their January board meeting.
As an aside: the yellow budget flyer that was sent out did have one line stating that kindergarten would be expanded to full day for all students. This flyer was done a month after the board and administration snuck a full-day kindergarten program into the FY2012 budget without advance public notice during its final budget meeting. This program inclusion and subsequent late notification flyer were done after all methods of recourse by Fairfax citizens besides voting were gone. Keep in mind, this one line is all the information that has been released and publicized by the board and administration. This notification does not even notify voters that there will be a change from 4 kindergarten classes down to 3 classes. This notification does not mention any details about what the full-day program would be or the financial impact of its inclusion. While the flyer did note some of the school-wide reductions made in order to come up with the budget, many of the cuts in staffing and programming were not mentioned.
Voting NO to this budget and behavior is, in my opinion, appropriate.
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I think the horse is dead.
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not dead until the vote is cast and even then the vet will be there with the medicine to keep the horse alive
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I can't believe this budget presentation was NOT made public knowledge!! So seems to me, they really do NOT want to hear what we, some public, have to say!!! I will vote NO & will be sending out messages to friends as to what has been "slipped by" us yet again!!
No way is "this horse dead"; people NEED to know what is going on & our board NEEDS to know how we feel! Why was this piece of info NOT stated on the flyer??!!
Thank you for passing this along & I will do so also!!
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Voting NO to an entire school budget based upon one line item is NOT in the best interest of the entire school community. I will be voting YES to this budget because I truly believe that the budget was crafted with only the best interest of the our students in mind. I trust the Administration at BFA Fairfax and the School Board members that they are doing what is right for our community and our students.
Thank you for your tireless efforts in a thankless job. I appreciate the work that has been done to construct this budget and the educational opportunities that are provided to my child through our school system. I am a SUPPORTER and will rally others to support the budget and the students/teachers/administration in our community as well.
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Is there anyone from the School Board who is on this forum that can reply to any of this conversation? Hearing from a Board Member to support why the Board wants to add full-day kindergarten would be interesting.
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As far as the budget goes, I'm in support of the budget. Comparing the quality and cost of education provided at Fairfax verses against state averages, the administration/teachers at Fairfax are doing a good job (that does NOT mean I think the board is doing a good job).
The budget is NOT a vote on acceptance of the board members. That is a separate issue for which we will have a separate opportunity to show who is really in charge, and that we will NOT tolerate underhanded actions to circumvent our input as citizens, tax payers, voters.
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I am curious as to when, exactly, we the taxpayers, parents & concerned citizens of Fairfax will be able to hear answers to the questions posed in this forum. I understand there is a budget presentation, but will there be adequate time for this barrage of questions? I do not want to vote no to the budget, however if I do not get some concrete answers from the School Board (that horses mouth) I will be forced to vote No as I will not vote blindly Yes. Members of the School Board, please hear our pleas for answers!
Also, 3 years ago, when my child was entering Kindergarten there was much discussion about a proposed Full-Day program (which I was against as my son required a lot of sleep at that time and would not have made it through a longer day). I remember a question being posed as to whether or not parents may pick up their child at Noon if there was a full day program. The answer at that time was YES as the core curriculum would be complete by that time. At that time the proposed full day afternoon consisted of lunch, recess, a small rest (quiet) period and specials; therefore leaving at 1/2 day would not interfere w/ academics. Is the proposed Full day (afternoon time) the same this time around?
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Kevin, There was a Budget Meeting held on February 14th. The next Budget Meeting will be on Saturday, February 26th, I believe at 10 a.m., which will be an informational meeting. I would expect they will answer questions there. I don't know how large a crowd they had on the 14th, but I don't anticipate the school board will be responding to any questions on this forum.
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WCF Said "Also, 3 years ago, when my child was entering Kindergarten there was much discussion about a proposed Full-Day program (which I was against as my son required a lot of sleep at that time and would not have made it through a longer day). I remember a question being posed as to whether or not parents may pick up their child at Noon if there was a full day program. The answer at that time was YES as the core curriculum would be complete by that time. At that time the proposed full day afternoon consisted of lunch, recess, a small rest (quiet) period and specials; therefore leaving at 1/2 day would not interfere w/ academics. Is the proposed Full day (afternoon time) the same this time around? "
This is why I am not willing to pay for it......
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Ok I'm confused. I understand the frustration with the School Board as this does actually happen in many communities. However, a Full Day Kindergarten program that will add no cost to the budget will not be taken out if the budget is voted down. What will happen is that the children of the community will suffer as extra curricular activities that cost money in the next fiscal year will suffer. Now I' am not going to get up on my soapbox and say this is right or this is wrong. But IF this about Full Day K keep that in mind when you vote. Taking it out will not affect the bottom line in the next fiscal year.
Vote how you want, I love Democracy.
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First let me say to "Counselor", thank you so much for your posts. It is wonderful to know that there are people like you out there that are as passionate about our children as we are and should be. There are a couple of things that I would like to say about this issue.
Full time kindergarten needs to be available in all of our schools. It should not be there for childcare reasons, it should not be there just because others are doing it, and it should not be there as "an intervention program for students who are determined to need additional services"! It should be there because truly and honestly our children need it! At that age children thrive on knowledge, whether it is play based or straight up instruction. I have a child right now that is in full day preschool, and that was the best decision I could have ever made for him! They have play time but they also have a curriculum in place that ready's the children for kindergarten. If my son has to go from full time pre-school to 1/2 day kindergarten it would truly be a setback for him, and I feel that is the case for many kids entering 1/2 day kindergarten. I find it even more frustrating that he would have to be tested and determined to be a student that needs additional services in order to receive the full day instruction, REALLY?!
I have another child that is currently in 3rd grade in Fairfax. I can remember how much he loved kindergarten and how short he thought his day was. I can remember speaking about it with his k teacher who felt the same way, and wished that there was more time in her day to teach the children who so badly wanted to stay and learn.
As parents my husband and I have always have been committed to our children's education and we have always been the #1 advocate for them, because that is our responsibility. Personally I don't care about research and I don't care about whether you are stay at home or full time working families. What I care about is that my children and your children have the availability to receive the best education possible, because that is what every child deserves. I think that regardless of what side of the fence you are on we can all agree to that.
We all have different ideas and we all have different opinions, but what most of us have in common is our children. That is what we need to be fighting for.
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You are right, my frustration is with the school board! The Full Day Program is free next year, but what are the costs for the next year, etc.. What are the benefits (i.e. Curriculum increases because a full day) I am completely in favor of improving the education of ALL the children at BFA. If going to a full day really only adds Lunch, Recess, and a small rest to the program (which we never had a chance to ask the school board); then I would prefer not to incurr the cost in the school budget (for future years) based on this.
I do not blindly trust the school administration/board to make all the right decisions for our children. Too many things get shoveled under the table that no one hears about.
Yes voting no on the budget will not reduce the budget on Full Day Kindergarten for this year, but this does bring up the fact that we as a community need to stay on top of the decisions made by the school board and speak up when necessary or be able to atleast ask the questions.
And with that I am putting this dead horse to rest........
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Again I ask, is it true that Kindergarten is still NOT a requirement to entering 1st grade? If so, we in Fairfax already offer a 2/3 day program 5 days a week, thus getting kids a good start on their school years. When will some be able to realize not all our pockets are deep enough to support everything we'd like to have in life! I for one think I have a hole in my pockets as everything keeps going up EXCEPT my salary!
MKR, NO one will tell you how much it will cost next year as who really knows? & once it's in, we continue to pay for it regardless. We all should reread WCF 's entry....kids will NOT miss academics if the parents pick up @ noon.......SO why FULL time??!!
There were cutbacks listed on the yellow flyer we received in the mail for the upcoming vote...BUT HONESTLY, REALLY, WHERE IS THE $$$$ COMING FROM FOR THE FULL DAY K??? I heard it's coming from medicaid tax dollars???!!!!
You also hear of people moving to a different place so their kids go to a better school.......hmmm, any board comments there?
I think we DO have a pretty good school already!
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OMG ... Nothing is FREE !
There are many folks who live on a FIXED income. These same folks have to wonder at what point do they sell because they too now can't afford these FREE; Won't impact the bottom line STATEMENTS?????
Most folks don't want to hear .... Federal Goverment will pay or a FREE GRANT ..... that means we are all paying for it! Think about everyone around you and if you want Full Day Kindergarten PAY FOR IT! OH yeah .... then you will want a NEW SCHOOL Bus Just for Kindergarten; and a NEW Building; and another Teacher; oh yeah at least two assistants; then there is Health Insurance;
But hey .... it is FREE!
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All of this really saddens me to hear. I hope we all can come to an agreement before our community starts to fall apart. Our government is on the brink of a collapse and we should all be trying to stick together. We may just need one another real soon. I understand that there were serious mistakes made but in the big picture what are we really asking for? We are asking for a chance to ask questions about how this all came about? Lets ask for a chance to be heard rather than vote out of frustration. I think this thread has opened a can of worms so maybe it is time to have a heart to heart. We have a great little town and we all need to stick together even though we do have differences. It is not the easiest of times for most so that in itself sets a tone.
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He again warned local school boards they will see state support decline $23 million next year. "Which means," the governor said, "they need to work doubly hard to ensure that a year from now their budgets include those reductions so that Vermonters don't have more property tax increases that they can't afford." THIS IS A QUOTE FROM SHUMLIN taxes are going up big time next year ,better get all the fluff in this year and the board knows it!!!!!
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"we as a community need to stay on top of the decisions made by the school board and speak up when necessary or be able to atleast ask the questions."
Exactly! All I want is an opportunity to have my questions (as well as all of yours) answered. I am going to (try to) contact the school board directly and I encourage each of you to do the same.
This thread is a great way to conduct a thoughtful conversation; however the reality is that the answers will only come from the School Board. Join me in contacting them to applaud their efforts, voice your concern/frustration or ask your questions.
Thank you for starting this thread, Patricia. Also, thank you to all the participants. I would not have known about the Full Day K program until I received my budget flyer. Now off to find the Boards contact info...
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I'm late getting to the party and didn't have time to read every post in this heated debate, but wish to add that I am not a proponent of Full-Day Kindergarten. I think we forget that these kids are little and there are many, many ways in which to learn the things they learn in school, w/o spending so many hours in a structured environment! These little guys are sponges and everything you do/say with and to them can be a learning experience.
Anything can be a game to a 3-5 yr old even picking up toys, if you make it fun. You can practice counting, simple add/subtract, learn words. letters, cooperation--all the things learned in school. It doesn't need to be special set aside sit down time and it shouldn't be--kids learn best when they play at that age.
The extended day is sufficient. My son, now in college started kindergarten at age 4-- the afternoon program, I chose that, because he was grumpy and slow to start in the morning and needed to spend several hours eating breakfast in stages (grazing) and easing into the day (he joined the military and is now an early riser with tons of energy...)
He had music, art, PE, and library each week, and the core curriculum. He's a bright kid and doing just fine as an adult. Other than making him tired, cranky, and miserable, I don't see where a full day in kindergarten would have improved his academic standing. He did fine in HS played FB, BB, Baseball. Was always athletic from first grade into college. He played FB in college until it was too time consuming. He has a decent GPA and has made the Dean's List. He's also an Eagle Scout.
I think this push for a full day kindergarten is more a matter of convenience than what's best for kids. I think we're packing so much stuff into these kids' day and trying to come up with brilliance because someone somewhere has said that's what we're supposed to do. Really?
Those of you who work in structured environments: How do you really feel about that? How tired are you at the end of your day?
Sadly, it will pass and little kids who go to kindergarten will miss out on being a little kid.
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Nothing to really add to the conversation this time, just wanted to be the 100th post in this discussion ;)
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I have no say in this problem but only ask this earlier it said a child had to be 5 by sept for fulltime kindergarden why isn't the child in first grade? I was and did not turn 5 till DEC.
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So @ town mtg on Sat., we heard the NEW cost to this full day kindergarten is now up to $22 k!! from NOTHING to this?? Next year we are told they "think it will cost about $40k"??!! then how much?? HMMMMM....... what else are we NOT hearing has been CUT in order to keep the budget down while increasing "K" to full day? I stand with my statement: other towns do not offer ANY "K" program; we offer a very good 2/3rd day program already & school hours are increasing 20min. I feel this is substantial for every child & if some need extra, keep on as they do now with offering that program. If a parent wants to pick up their child @ noon, it has been said they will not be missing academics; so we are offering a daycare time - social time was a word used in the past- that taxpayers pay for. But the only way to let them hear this is to vote NO on the school budget as it was brought to my attention this AM some people are under the impression we are voting specifically on the "K" issue; NO the only way to say NO to this is by voting down the budget & then MAYBE that issue will be addressed in a way more people are aware of so we can all voice opinions. It was said @ the mtg that if you go to the board mtgs you will be informed; not always true as there is exec. session. BUT like my neighbor stated, not all of us have the time to go to these mtgs as we have other responsibilities (jobs with off hours & kids to attend to). My opinion is we elect the boards to make decisions/choices BUT it is also their duty to keep us informed of these decisions they make.
Just a personal statement, as some people questioned & stated their opinions against the topic of full "K", it was not very professional (NOR KIND), for some members to make faces in disagreement/disgust as what was being said, nor to throw the dagger looks! Makes others not want to speak!
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"It was said @ the mtg that if you go to the board mtgs you will be informed"
This would be a valid argument if the minutes and agendas were consistently available. The original January meeting in question mentioned "Kindergarten" on the agenda but did not elaborate. Since this meeting, there have been no agendas available on the web site (http://www.bfafairfax.com/pages/schoolboardnews.html). I know they are posted on the bulletin board at school, but if we don't have kids in school yet we often aren't there. Am I going to the wrong web site looking for agendas?
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http://fairfax-school-board.fwsu.schoolfusion.us/modules/groups/integrated_home.phtml?&gid=2170710&sessionid=9371f7a5414b27ebd50ac49a37f10719 (http://fairfax-school-board.fwsu.schoolfusion.us/modules/groups/integrated_home.phtml?&gid=2170710&sessionid=9371f7a5414b27ebd50ac49a37f10719)
This is the Franklin West site where you can find the minutes and the agendas.
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It only goes to January or am I looking in the wrong area for February minutes.
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Julie & 6pt Dave,
Thank you for providing the new link for the agendas and minutes. This is very helpful!!
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I haven't been posting on the school site as they are trying to transition to a new school website. It seems to be taking a long time to get it up and running, so in the meantime, I thought it would be helpful to have this one. February minutes have been submitted, but not approved yet. I am assuming they won't be posted until they are approved.