Henry Raymond

Fairfax News => Current News & Events => Topic started by: Henry on January 14, 2012, 07:39:29 AM

Title: VTrans Moves Forward With Salt Brine Plan
Post by: Henry on January 14, 2012, 07:39:29 AM

Having been brought up with flopping rusted out fenders and floorboards on cars due to salt damage, I personally am not in favor of the present Salt Brine Plan in place.  At the present time I have an 8 year old car and would love to keep it another 5 years or more, however if the Towns and VTrans go ahead with their salt brine plan, I will most likely not be able to make that happen.  I think that the manufacturers have been able to come up with a way to prevent the rusting and corrosion of the car bodies that was going on in the 1970s and would hope that before we deliberately spread salt brine on the highways, we find a way to do it so it does not damage the car bodies.  We do live in Vermont and can expect winter driving conditions and with the price of automobiles do not need to shorten their lives with the present Salt Brine Plan.  I was a commuter for work outside of Fairfax for 43 years and we did not have Salt Brine then, so feel to make sure we know what we are doing before we start using it.  For more info, click on the following link:

http://www.wcax.com/story/16515807/ (http://www.wcax.com/story/16515807/)

Title: Re: VTrans Moves Forward With Salt Brine Plan
Post by: Dick Brown on January 14, 2012, 08:33:10 AM

Henry          As a former Vermonter , remembering what you cited as the typical condition of older ( 3 years or more ? ) automobiles " back in the day " , I would echo your thoughts on caring for winter roads . Obviously , unless something unexpected happens to bring me north these next few months, my concern is for my friends and relatives who have to navigate the highways for the remainder of the winter months  and who also have similar concerns about " salt brine " useage . It would be interesting to see the data that these decisions are based on .   Stay safe .

Title: Re: VTrans Moves Forward With Salt Brine Plan
Post by: Corm on January 14, 2012, 08:46:17 AM

Is salt brine any worse for our cars than the salt they've been using for many years? I haven't read anything regarding salt brine, and the WCAX link in the original note doesn't work for me.

Corm

Title: Re: VTrans Moves Forward With Salt Brine Plan
Post by: Henry on January 14, 2012, 10:41:13 AM

It's been tested in the state for the past three years and now, Vermont's Agency of Transportation plans to expand its use of salt brine on Vermont roadways.

Vermont's winter roads policy is safe roads at safe speeds -- meaning drivers should expect to see snow on the roads during a storm so drive accordingly.

"We don't think that bare roads are practical or achievable just because when you are in a snow storm the snow is hitting the road quicker than the truck can get back to it," said Scott Rogers with the Agency of Transportation.     
     
A bare roads policy would mean doubling the state's maintenance staff, adding equipment for that staff and a location to house that equipment. The price? More than 56-million dollars, which is why they won't do it.

"We aren't doing something new, we aren't doing something that's more corrosive, we aren't doing something that has more impact," Rodgers said.

What they are doing is investing in salt brine, a mixture of salt and water. The state has been testing it in Colchester for three years and St. Albans for two. Now, they intend to open a new facility in Rutland over the weekend.  Critics believe salt brine isn't as effective, and while state officials agree it's not a silver bullet, they believe it is doing the job. They're also fighting rumors from the public that it may it be saving the state money, but it's also costing car owners in wear and tear. 

"In terms of internal to VTrans we are not seeing any increased corrosion to our plow trucks comparing districts that use salt brine compared to districts that don't use it," Rodgers said.

Vtrans also washes their trucks every night as they come off of the road.  While salt brine is designed to make clearing the roads easier for the AOT it might mean more work for the guys at the car wash.

"It's a lot harder to get the salt brine off of the cars. You would see before a dusty white coating, now the backs of them are brown and you can't even see through the windows," said Mark Chicline, the Manager at Seaway Car Wash. He says because salt brine is applied to the roads before the storm, it sticks to dry cars making it more difficult to remove. "It gets into all the cracks and crevices we didn't see it getting into before -- rear tailgates and rear wells are just caked with salt brine," he said.

He says the salt brine itself doesn't corrode cars more than traditional road salt, but the new chemicals the state hopes to use will. "They say there are other chemicals they are going to be adding, not just molasses but magnesium and calcium which
are more corrosive to metals," he said.

The good news for Chicline? The state's plan could mean more business as the salt brine plan expands statewide.

Title: Re: VTrans Moves Forward With Salt Brine Plan
Post by: mirjo on January 14, 2012, 11:39:48 AM

I don't know about the corrosion issue, but I think the brine tends to make matters worse instead of better. I have noticed the roads much more slippery and while there are certainly some drivers who do need to slow down (those in SUVs) I'm the one they are blowing by.  I've noticed a change in the road conditions at 30mph. :-(

Title: Re: VTrans Moves Forward With Salt Brine Plan
Post by: Vtsharon on January 14, 2012, 12:47:21 PM

NH DOT has been using salt brine for several years on the highways for pretreatment before a storm to reduce the icing. They do not use it solely and not at all if the storm starts as rain since it washes away before the snow starts. I believe MA Highway Dept also uses salt brine for pretreatment. As a commuter, the reduction in rock salt and sand on the highway has been a positive as I haven't had to replace my car windshield every spring (fewer stones kicked up into windshield).

Title: Re: VTrans Moves Forward With Salt Brine Plan
Post by: rod anode on January 16, 2012, 02:24:29 PM

well from what i was told an 80 percent solution should be used but with the state tring to save money only an 40 percent solution is being used therefore not as effective and slipery roads