Henry Raymond

Fairfax News => Current News & Events => Topic started by: Henry on January 23, 2013, 09:31:03 AM

Title: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: Henry on January 23, 2013, 09:31:03 AM
(http://www.vtgrandpa.com/photos/albums/forum2013/racisim_alive_in_vt.jpg)

Read the article in last night's St. Albans Messenger Written By Michelle Monroe:

http://www.samessenger.com/node/4039 (http://www.samessenger.com/node/4039)

Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: rod anode on January 23, 2013, 04:36:37 PM
ITS PEOPLE LIKE THAT ,THAT KEEP IT ALIVE .....GIVE ME A BREAK
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: vtoutdoorguymb on January 23, 2013, 05:41:55 PM
I am truly sorry for negative experiences that these folks have experienced, as it is just plain wrong in this day and age. That said, i believe , if you always look at the world through the lenses of "I am black and everyone is treating me different because of it" than you will find very few positive interactions in your life. Self-fullfilling prophecy sometimes...
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: tfence on January 23, 2013, 06:44:51 PM
well said vtoutdoorguymb. I grew up in a very racist time and place with a lot of violence (Boston Busing in the 70's). I assure you things are a lot different now a days.
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: 7F24 on January 24, 2013, 06:31:08 AM
When Mr. Hill says "white people", he includes all white people.  It sounds to me like he is doing what he is complaining about.
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: mkr on January 24, 2013, 09:54:46 AM
I completely agree with you vtoutdoorguymb.... all in how you look at it. 

Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: Stand Alone Defense on January 24, 2013, 02:54:11 PM
Lived in a lot of different places and one thing I am sure of is racism is not a problem in Vermont!!!  If you go looking for the Devil you will find him, no matter where you live.   
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: Judi on January 24, 2013, 03:47:39 PM
How can a white person know that there is not racism if they don't experience it first hand? Are we taking a blind eye because we don't see it first hand?
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: Mummy on January 24, 2013, 05:54:03 PM
Some people Live in the Past ... Jews were a target minority at one time .... Irish people had a turn as well ...  if you go BACK in the past we all have had a turn!  I liked the FACT this couple CHOOSE to retire in Vermont!  I just want to know if it because some just like the "extra" attention?  What time in your life do you move forward?
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: Counselor on January 24, 2013, 06:08:35 PM
We spent some time living as the minority race for awhile here in our own contiguous US.  Really believe we have a handle on what certain aspects of being that minority are like. If you want to find it (racism) its there. I can honestly say though, I dont see it very much here in VT.  We have other issues with bullying and harassment that are far more prevalent. However, always looking at the glass as half empty will not produce positive much forward progress IMHO. Very glad they chose our state to retire to, but do wonder why and what they hope to gain.
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: nhibbard on January 24, 2013, 09:31:44 PM
After reading parts of this, I'm pretty well offended. I never had to live through the life events or have the histories of those interviewed, but as a white person, I think I don't care too much what color someone is. The colleges I've gone to brought in talent from all walks, why they accepted someone is their problem, what those people did with the opportunity is what matters. Who cares if they were selected based on where they were from or what color they were. Take the opportunity and run with it.

She mentioned she didn't want to be the "token" on the Committee. Well stop thinking of yourself as the "token" and spend more time working on the goals of the organization. If she had a specific issue with racism on the Committee or why she was accepted, she should have declined to be on the Committee and brought the issue to light or confronted the Committee.

Again, I can never walk in either of their shoes, but assuming that I believe "white is right" because I'm white is just offensive. Ignorant comments about other ignorant people seems, well, IGNORANT.

The link below is to the nice man who refused to serve some customers because of their ignorance. If you bottle up and don't tell people they're offensive, they won't know better. If you call them on it and they don't change, then at least you know where they stand. If someone offends you, tell them and do something.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/waiter-refused-customer-becomes-hero-144638357--finance.html

There will sadly always be racists. But calling out all white people is just as racist. So I guess they get to join the group unless they want to revise their comments a bit.
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: nhibbard on January 24, 2013, 10:28:16 PM
I just had to go back and quote this. I'm sorry for quoting almost ever line of this thing but it rubbed me the wrong way:

"Vermont's a hard place, and heartless.” - Why would you live here then? As far as I can tell, the State is very accepting. I work at the Housing Authority in Burlington and every effort is made to help with translations for refugees, equal access to all services and we work with quite a few local groups to provide activities open to all kids/families. The WARMTH program seems pretty full of heart. Fairfax has been very accepting to my family and I just moved here. When I moved from NH I didn't know anyone and I've made plenty of life long friends from this State.

"The Hills are African-American in a state where only 1.1 percent of the population is. Franklin County, where they live, is less so at just .6 percent. However, Hill says that African-Americans are the fastest growing minority in the state." - If we're so heartless as a State, why are so many African-American families moving here?

"Over 80 percent of the people who populate planet Earth are people of color," said Hill. "How can you say you are preparing a student with education that makes that person a fully functional, intelligent, marketable person when you exclude that community and teachers from within that community?" - Who is being excluded? Is the rest of the world teach US History? I remember learning about the history of many areas of the world. If you want to focus on what isn't being taught, that's a whole other problem where there isn't enough time to teach everything. And I'm all for the most qualified teacher getting the job, I don't care who it is as long as they can do it.

"Vermonters and Vermont students are "conditioned to believe it's only right when it's white," said Hill. The conditioning is reinforced when the only faces they see in positions of authority are white. Judgeships are filled with whites, as is the governor's cabinet and school superintendents. Even groups such as the Chamber of Commerce and the United Way have all whites leading them, noted Hill." - Could this have anything to do with only 1.1% of the population being African-American? I would ALWAYS assume that if you take the majority and look who they are, that would be the majority of representation at all levels. Again, that's an assumption, best person for the job gets the job in my view.

The media almost always go to a white person, especially a retired white person, to get their opinions "as though they are the experts on everything," said Hill. - I'm young and I think my opinion is right, but I thought most young people did. I watch Fox News sometimes, SportsCenter, and listen to technology shows, plenty of non-white in my media. Who cares who the host is.

When African-Americans are sought out for their views, Hill pointed out, it is often in January for Martin Luther King, Jr. Day – as the Messenger did – or in February for African-American History Month. - That would be because you want news that matches the holiday. Like around Christmas I'd like stories about Christmas rather than Halloween. For African-American History Month, I'd like to learn about African-American History.

While Hill, who was appointed by Gov. Jim Douglas to Vermont's Workforce Equity and Diversity Council, urges the recruitment of African-Americans and other ethnic and racial minorities to work in positions of authority, he also acknowledges hiring people of color isn't sufficient if you can't retain them. - Why would you encourage the hiring of any group? Just encourage the hiring of qualified persons regardless of their group. Makes no sense, now your discouraging the hiring of one group by encouraging another.

He pointed to one African-American state employee in the Dean administration who walked into a meeting on diversity to find a noose hanging from the ceiling. Those responsible were transferred, but they remained state employees. - Fired, I have no problem firing any ignorant human being who does something like that. I'm not them, but those people should have been fired on the spot.

Gov. Jim Douglas appointed an African-American woman as director of technology. She resigned citing family reasons, but privately Hill said she told him "the white people circled the wagons." Hill described a situation in which she was buried in so much bureaucracy that she couldn't do the job she was appointed to do. - It's a government job, there is tape, especially with technology. If they added more tape, they wasted my money and she should have gone and complained. I'd listen, I like tech and I hate wasting taxpayer money.

It is optional for the heads of state agencies to meet with the Equity and Diversity Council, said Hill, and most do not. "Is it guilt that keeps them from coming? Or is it mandatory whites only?" he asked. - I wouldn't go either. If I'm at work, I want to work. I don't know anyone who enjoys those workshops/meetings except the people putting them on or that really wanted to go.

After six years on the Human Rights Commission, Boyd-Hill said she has opted to no longer serve on commissions. "I'm not a token," said Boyd-Hill. "I have more worth than that." She does not need to serve on a commission to speak, said Boyd-Hill. "I don't need anyone's permission because I am a child of God and I have a voice. I will always have a voice," said Boyd-Hill. - So there aren't enough people of color on boards or committees, but when she was, she was the "token" and quit? I'm not seeing the logic.

In addition to recruiting more people of color to work in the school system at all levels, Hill wants to see exchange programs to increase contact amongst students of various backgrounds. Pointing to the visit to Bellows Free Academy in Fairfax by Chinese students, Hill said, "You mean you have to go all the way to China to find a person of color?" - Why are we recruiting? Why aren't they applying. And maybe they missed the memo that China is one of the largest developing nations economically. I thought they said we should be learning more about world culture. Now we should only focus on people from America of color?

St. Michael's College has an ongoing exchange program with Mississippi, he pointed out. Culture shock, ignorance and one-upmanship would all have to be worked through to make an exchange program work, according to Hill. "White people have been conditioned to assume their experience of white supremacy is real," he said. - What does this mean? I'd be shocked by the culture in any southern state or other country. I was shocked when I saw the size of some of those southern malls, puts the UMall to shame.

When people of color are not in positions where "respectability and accountability count," the assumption white people make is that there is something wrong with people of color, explained Hill. - I make the assumption of all people in that situation that they either 1) were gaining experience for a higher job, 2) like their current job, 3) just got hired or 4) didn't have the skills for a higher level of accountability. I didn't realize that you get respectability and accountability at every level right off the bat. Am I less respected because I'm not a supervisor, or am I respected because of my skills and knowledge even though I'm not a supervisor.

Whites also tend to assume that the experiences of African-Americans are all the same, when black men and women are treated very differently in American society. - I don't but apparently all white people are the same. Interesting.

"While he was whipping me in the fields, he was raping her in the big house," said Hill of slavery, raising a topic few in America discuss – the historic sexual exploitation of black women by white women during and after slavery. African-Americans in the North and South also have very different experiences, said Hill. - I don't discuss the historic sexual exploitation of any group. Does that mean I don't care, no. I just don't talk about it.

However, he does get tired of people assuming he's the minister of the New Alpha Baptist Church in Burlington simply because he is black. He's also exasperated by questions about Michael Jordan, the former NBA superstar. "What are you asking me about Michael Jordan for?" he asked rhetorically. "I don't know Michael Jordan. I don't play basketball." - I get tired of assumptions that all white people are racist. I'm also tired of people complaining that I'm not talking about the topic they want me to talk about. This is a reference to the last paragraph. I also don't talk about the plight of pandas or elephants. I really don't mean to make less of the topic, but to make the point that, I don't talk about things because I don't. Because you do, doesn't mean I need to as well.

There are also the times he enters the room and the conversation stops. - I do this to, partially because I want to see who walked in and secondly, maybe it was private and now that you're there it's no longer private. I understand there are the situations when that's not the case. But making the blanket statement, well opens you up to this comment.  I stop talking when my kid walks in the room too sometimes too.

"You know disrespect when you see it," said Hill. - I sure do and I'm not sure if it's how this article was written, but I'm feeling it now.

There is also the treatment of President Barack Obama and Michelle Obama. Both are products of some of the best universities in the country, Hill pointed out, calling them "the best the country has to offer." Yet Obama and his family have experienced more threats to their safety than any president in history. - Another generic wide open quote to frame the issue. I'd beg to differ due to a couple of assassinations in Presidential history. Has Obama been shot at? I'm pretty sure every President got threats.

"The issue is recognition, acceptance, validation," said Hill. - I'd like you to accept me as a young person who has never met you or heard from you until I read this article. I hope very much that the context of this article was wrong but reverse racism and blanket assumptions are no better than what they were complaining of.
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: rod anode on January 25, 2013, 04:35:09 AM
WOW you really spent some time on this matter,like I said before its their fault
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: Stand Alone Defense on January 25, 2013, 08:51:41 AM
They think it's bad here move!! Plain and simple!! I have no sympathy for people that act like this and unfortunately there are too many people from all races and genders that act this way.
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: mkr on January 25, 2013, 09:53:10 AM
Nicely put Nick. 

I am a friend of all walks of life and don't pre-judge/profile based on race, gender, appearance, income, etc..  But I do base my opinions on how you treat me, my family, or my friends.
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: slpott on January 25, 2013, 03:45:37 PM
It always goes back to the "demanded respect" or "earned respect". There is a big difference. People generally treat you the way you treat them.
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: mirjo on January 27, 2013, 07:16:46 PM
@nhibbard, I couldn't have put it any better. Like everyone else here, I too felt insulted by this article and the attitude of this couple. I have friends from all walks of life, however, I do judge people, I admit: those who are a-holes and those who are not. It's a very simple system and has served me well.

I don't know what's happened in this couple's life, but they clearly have a chip on their shoulders and maybe should retire elsewhere since they're so unhappy here.

I don't think the paper did a service to anyone by printing a disclaimer about the language content, like we couldn't figure out how the term "nigger" was being used in the article. I'm not a racist, but I certainly am tired of being treated like I personally issued an order for slaves some 200 years ago and launched the ships to Africa to kidnap people from their villages, wrote the Jim Crow laws, called for the segregation of everything, purposely led the charge to keep the black man down, and burned crosses with the KKK, etc. It had nothing to do with me or my generation.

I'm shocked by some of the things this couple has alleged--especially at the level in which they said it occurred, it seems very surreal. I can't say they're wrong, because I wasn't present, but considering the tone of the story, I have to question how much of their perceptions is an accurate portrayal and how much is their own racist attitudes?

Quote
"Vermonters and Vermont students are "conditioned to believe it's only right when it's white," said Hill. The conditioning is reinforced when the only faces they see in positions of authority are white. Judgeships are filled with whites, as is the governor's cabinet and school superintendents. Even groups such as the Chamber of Commerce and the United Way have all whites leading them, noted Hill." - Could this have anything to do with only 1.1% of the population being African-American? I would ALWAYS assume that if you take the majority and look who they are, that would be the majority of representation at all levels. Again, that's an assumption, best person for the job gets the job in my view.

My thoughts exactly. It's always seemed ridiculous to me to preach about diversity and so on, when this is like the whitest state in the nation--not because we're unfriendly, but because it's damn cold we have long dreary winters that even the people born & raised here complain about loudly! I think people don't want to come here for that reason and because it's very rural. There isn't much here. Some people like to have more around them than others do.


Quote
After six years on the Human Rights Commission, Boyd-Hill said she has opted to no longer serve on commissions. "I'm not a token," said Boyd-Hill. "I have more worth than that." She does not need to serve on a commission to speak, said Boyd-Hill. "I don't need anyone's permission because I am a child of God and I have a voice. I will always have a voice," said Boyd-Hill. - So there aren't enough people of color on boards or committees, but when she was, she was the "token" and quit? I'm not seeing the logic.

Unless I have my history lessons  wrong, it seems any significant change that ever happened in changing the very things these two are complaining about came from selfless acts of staying with it, what ever it was, for the greater good. Ms. Boyd-Hill appears nothing more than a whiny poser, which is unfortunate, because she's likely a very intelligent woman with a lot to offer.

One point I'd like to make about the alleged overt racism this couple has experienced, while I know racism does exist on some level still everywhere, I don't believe it's as horrible or overt in Vermont as in more urban states. Here in Fairfax, for example, the Saini family owned and operated Nan's Mobile for a number of years and recently turned the business over to family members in the past year. Parkash became a friend to all who entered his store, his children and niece and nephews grew up and graduated from BFA. They are Indian, not black, but certainly not "white."  They moved to Fairfax in 2001-- a bad year for people of Middle Eastern descent after 9/11. If the people of this town were going to be racist, this is where it would have occurred. I don't recall any particular incident directed at the family or the store that would be considered a hate crime, because of who they are (If I'm wrong and someone knows differently, please correct me).

The point is, Parkash was always gracious and friendly and enjoyed his job as a store owner. It showed in his attitude and I don't think the business at Nan's suffered any when it changed over from the "white" owner's hands to the "Indian" owner's. As someone else said, you're going to find what you're looking for. Maybe these two want sympathy or something. ???

Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: lena6 on January 28, 2013, 12:09:26 PM
Can we please close the book on this debate?  Enough has been said.
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: rod anode on January 28, 2013, 03:33:51 PM
or beating a dead horse????
Title: Re: Fairfax Couple Says Racism Still Alive In Vermont
Post by: Counselor on February 08, 2013, 12:48:38 PM
Seems like your situation is indeed what you make of it.  This is in stark contrast to the story here and I think is more indicative of VT and its people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=R8YaVKLWyUU