Henry Raymond
Fairfax News => Current News & Events => Topic started by: 7F24 on April 17, 2015, 07:13:54 PM
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Is there any truth to the rumor that substitute teachers are going to be contracted through Kelly by the SU...if so will this cost us more?
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Is anyone from the SU on this forum? I am curious about the rumor of using Kelly services for substitute teachers. This reminds me of the whole busing issue. I believe if a substitute is needed now, they are called directly by Val or Sally. If we use Kelly services, we will not only be paying for the substitute, we will also be paying Kelly so they can make a profit. Is this what is happening, or am I misinformed?
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I don't have an knowledge if this is true or not, but this is an interesting idea.
Kelly Services would charge at least 25% above whatever the sub receives for pay but that dollar increase may provide a decent value return to warrant it.
If Kelley is handing the background checks, payroll taxes, employment compliance, etc then it could (in theory) save school employees time then it might be worth it. It could also be beneficial if Kelly agreed to guarantee coverage. I imagine a temp agency probably has access to a much larger pool of resources than a single school or group of schools does. As a temp agency employee, the subs would probably have access to other benefits such as health insurance, maybe even .
I don't really have a bias either way but just remember to look at the total value of both sides (just as with busing) before making a decision.
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I've heard this is what is being discussed, but am not sure why. Right now we have a system that works. The secretaries (both Fairfax citizens, I might add) are basically on call when not at school. When a teacher or paraprofessional knows that they can not make it to school, we call the secretaries. This may be in the evening or very early in the morning. The secretaries are compensated for this service by receiving an extra hours pay per day. This money stays in Fairfax. The secretaries make calls to the people on their sub list. Most of these subs are also Fairfax citizens. Many are moms or dads or grandparents of the kids in our school. They work because they like the kids and our school and get a chance to put a little (and I mean a little) extra cash in their pockets. They personally know our kids. Our kids know them. Our secretaries know all the subs' strengths and are very good at matching the sub to the vacancy needed. Our secretaries know which sub works best for each special needs student. They know which ones can best handle a difficult classroom. Our subs care about our school, our kids, and the job they are doing and they do an excellent job on sometimes very short notice. Many of them move into permanent positions as paraprofessionals in the school. All this money, our tax dollars, stays right here in Fairfax.
If Kelly Services is brought in, I'm positive that many of the dedicated subs we have will not work for them. They will not have the flexibility they have today working through a temp service. The money the school will pay for this service will not stay in Fairfax, it will go to Kelly Services, a national company. The subs may be coming in from many other places, Burlington, St. Albans, Essex, Milton, and who knows where else. This money will not stay in our town. Our children will not know them. They will not know our kids. Kelly Services will not know who works best with what child or in which classroom. These subs might not care about our kids like our own community does, and only see their work at our school as a job.
Currently we have a system that has and still does work well. If we have any difficulty finding enough coverage on any given day it is usually because there is a long list of teachers and paras out of the building. There is a limit to the names on the list since subs are paid very little for the job that they do.
This community should be asking why, like with the buses, contracting this out will better serve our taxpayers and/or our kids. How does bringing in a middleman give us a cheaper service? And how will the quality compare? Just because a few other schools in the state do it it doesn't mean it's right for our community.
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A thoughtful and well written piece, Julie. Thank you. The old expression 'why fix it if it ain't broke' seems to apply here. All your points are cogent and spot on.
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Great points. I think the issue may have come up due to the lack of Subs. I know many times they simply cant fill the daily vacancies. Maybe this was a way to increase the picking pool? Maybe the fix is use our own and if they can't fill the vacant spots, then call Kelly for help? Could be a way to solve all issues. . .
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Thanks for the information Julie! I agree with Rev.Liz! I am much more blunt & will say this: once again this is where it comes from the SU office, always trying to make their job easier & cutting one check regardless how it plays out within our system, (lunch issue, 1 head custodian for our schools, attempt @ busing) & now this.Pretty sure it doesn't happen often where they can't fill the spots, so why bring in an added expense just in case?
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Pretty sure it doesn't happen often where they can't fill the spots
Pretty sure it does
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Did they present the actual number of times they could not fill the spots?
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Perhaps some thoughts from the secretaries who actually contact and schedule the substitutes on a daily basis could provide a little first hand information to this conversation and add to the information Julie provided.
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Yes this is being looked at, like the bussing there are reasons why it is being looked at and this time no decision has been made, information is only being gathered.
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What are the reasons?
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Just to be clear on this issue. NO DECISIONS HAVE BEEN MADE. At this time information is just being gathered. Further discussion will be had, I highly recommend that you go to the School Board Meetings and state your concerns so the board can hear them. I am certain that the administration has reasons for looking at this, some of their concerns you may agree with some of them you may not. Come to board meetings hear the reasoning for issues, ask questions, weigh in with your opinions. This is how a community should be involved in the school, not by speculating on forums such as this. I think BFA has a pretty reasonable board who listens to the concerns of the community and does the best job they can to meet those concerns. I also believe that the administrators are a good group of people who really understand the ins and outs of running a school. I think they do due deligence to the community by exploring options like this and bringing them to the board for informed discussion. I believe they excell at looking at what's coming out of Montpelier and positioning the school in the best way possible to meet the future requirements and minimize disruption to the school. Sometimes this means we have to at least look at changing the way we do business and occasionally actually change.
If you look at the bus issue as an example, the Super was the biggest proponet of keeping the buses. I know that many people think otherwise but I saw his actions first hand. He made several appeals to the State for waivers from the law, he helped build the case that proved to the state that keeping the busing as is was the most cost effective way to do business and in the end the state insisted that the busing be managed by the SU, which is going to happen but in a way that will have a zero impact on the way BFA does business.
I encourage anyone who has concerns on this to come and participate in the board meeting and hear all of the information and provide your point of view.
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I have attended school board meetings & 1 reason I do not go is we can NOT hear what the board is saying, & YES that has been brought to their attention many times! It makes 1 feel as if not wanted if you can't hear what is being said & a bit uncomfortable to always ask them to speak up.
I also disagree with the SU was the biggest proponet of keeping the buses; he HAD to file a waiver to be in accordance with the ridiculous rules the state is mandating to school & after petitions, towns people also showing support, he finally saw it possibly as a way to get the budget passed PLUS, our BUS super proved it is more cost effective to keep our own buses. NOT always is change for the better & we do NOT have to be the 1st in the state to do something coming down for new rules... let someone else take the fall & we can learn from mistakes. That comment I heard @ a board meeting before: that we would be the 1st school to do something.
Glad NO decisions have been made & that information is being gathered; HOPEFULLY both sides are well represented rather than putting more pros to the side 1 wishes for.
Rarely does adding the income of a "middle man" to do the job continue to be cost effective; maybe in the beginning, but just wait for it to change.
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" I also believe that the administrators are a good group of people who really understand the ins and outs of running a school." Maybe you can explain why the High School principal is being replaced? Heaven forbid that in a free society, filled with technological means of communication, anyone would dare to speak on a public forum, let alone to each other.
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RidgeRunner,
"This is how a community should be involved in the school, not by speculating on forums such as this."
It is forums like this that help those who are not at the school daily to gather information and also encourage them to become proactive on issues they are passionate about. I would not know about this if it wasn't for a closed Facebook group and this forum.
Food for thought.... No one said it was a done deal. You seem to have a ton of information except for the reason why they are looking into, but they are definitely doing it with the best intentions. Like the Select Board for the town, getting information out to the community is important when big changes are occurring. I suggest the School Board also provide similar information. Not everybody can attend their meetings. I for one am one of them. It would be nice to have more information on these "BIG" topics on their web sites. Is there an email where town's people can email them questions and they will respond in a timely fashion? These would be all good ways to eliminate speculation. I suggest you help be part of the solution and help with getting answers. I do my best to help when it comes to the Select Board. Maybe you can be the correspondence here for the School Board RidgeRunner.
I am glad to see they are recording the School Board Meetings now and can be watched. Has anyone watched them yet? Are we able to hear people speak?
http://fairfax-school-board.fwsu.schoolfusion.us/modules/groups/integrated_home.phtml?&gid=2170710&sessionid=0624a746e2d361fa311c904d698de307&t=93383c7eba671fdce1df0e58bd7d885a (http://fairfax-school-board.fwsu.schoolfusion.us/modules/groups/integrated_home.phtml?&gid=2170710&sessionid=0624a746e2d361fa311c904d698de307&t=93383c7eba671fdce1df0e58bd7d885a)
~MK
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" I also believe that the administrators are a good group of people who really understand the ins and outs of running a school." Maybe you can explain why the High School principal is being replaced? Heaven forbid that in a free society, filled with technological means of communication, anyone would dare to speak on a public forum, let alone to each other.
The High School Principal decided to move on by his own decision. He wasn't replaced or relieved he decided he wanted to do something else. If you want the reasons on why he decided to move on you'll have to ask him.
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RidgeRunner,
"This is how a community should be involved in the school, not by speculating on forums such as this."
It is forums like this that help those who are not at the school daily to gather information and also encourage them to become proactive on issues they are passionate about. I would not know about this if it wasn't for a closed Facebook group and this forum.
Food for thought.... No one said it was a done deal. You seem to have a ton of information except for the reason why they are looking into, but they are definitely doing it with the best intentions. Like the Select Board for the town, getting information out to the community is important when big changes are occurring. I suggest the School Board also provide similar information. Not everybody can attend their meetings. I for one am one of them. It would be nice to have more information on these "BIG" topics on their web sites. Is there an email where town's people can email them questions and they will respond in a timely fashion? These would be all good ways to eliminate speculation. I suggest you help be part of the solution and help with getting answers. I do my best to help when it comes to the Select Board. Maybe you can be the correspondence here for the School Board RidgeRunner.
I am glad to see they are recording the School Board Meetings now and can be watched. Has anyone watched them yet? Are we able to hear people speak?
http://fairfax-school-board.fwsu.schoolfusion.us/modules/groups/integrated_home.phtml?&gid=2170710&sessionid=0624a746e2d361fa311c904d698de307&t=93383c7eba671fdce1df0e58bd7d885a (http://fairfax-school-board.fwsu.schoolfusion.us/modules/groups/integrated_home.phtml?&gid=2170710&sessionid=0624a746e2d361fa311c904d698de307&t=93383c7eba671fdce1df0e58bd7d885a)
~MK
MK I agree with you these forums could be a great place to informed on what's going on, they can also be a great place to talk people down and push false information, I have seen good information come through here but I have also seen people push personal agendas as well as speculation that is completly wrong. I think the board is open to discussing anything with anyone and if you have a concern try emailing the board, the e-mail for the board is fxboard@fwsu.org.
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With every form of communication Ridgerunner you have to take the good with the bad. The good part is people are talking about and they care. Those who are passionate may not always be able to express their views in the written form as well as others and if you can see thru that I think you will see most people have a common ground. In this case, what is the best interest of the children and is affordable to the tax payer.
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I sent an email. I will let you all know the results. ~MK
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Email has been responded to and I will have a response next week to put out there for all to read.
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First off, Thank you Jasen for responding so we could get this out to the public.
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My Email to the School Board:
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Good Morning,
I am emailing to ask if I could be provided with some details on the possibility of switching from our existing process for substitute teachers to going with a temp service. I unfortunately am one who cannot attend your meetings but do care deeply about the children and how processes are modified for them.
There have been a lot of talks about it both on my father’s forum (Henry Raymond) and on Facebook. I would love to be able to post so details as to the cause for the change and what we hope to accomplish.
I know many are concerned for the children with special needs and how the secretaries do a great job with fitting the sub with the appropriate class or student based on their personal knowledge being at the school.
Another concern is the additional cost to using temp services.
We have heard from some of the local subs that they would not want to go thru Kelly.
Parents have also vocalized their desire to keep the local subs. They like keeping our dollars local as well as their chances of knowing the sub.
Is there a possibility of having the local subs process continue and if additional subs were needed, on the rare occasion, to use the temp services sparingly.
I appreciate your time and look forward to your responses to allow for the local forums to have information directly from you.
Mary Kay Raymond
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Response From Jasen Boyd From the School Board
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Hi Mary Kay,
I was hoping to send this out to you last night but ended up running between practices for the boys and just ran out of time. Sorry for the delay.
First off I want to make certain that everyone understands that at this point no decision has been made. Options are just being explored and cost comparisons being done.
The major reason behind exploring this option is due to the American Care Act (ACA) regulations which are being or have been implemented as part of the act. Under the ACA the BFA would be responsible for paying for health insurance for any sub that works 30 hours or more in one week. As I am sure you are aware the cost of insurance is a large cost and if a mistake in calculations was made this would have large impacts on the budget as well as day to day school operations. For example we could have someone sub for 15 hours, coach for 10 and perform maintenance in the bus garage. Currently all of this information is managed by the central office but one failure in communication from one of the sub managers would result a fine of $140,000 for the school due to fines from the government as well as the additional cost of insurance.
On top of this Kelly would be responsible for hiring training and tracking sub hours. As the employer Kelly would be responsible for providing any benefits that may be earned. Subs who are registered with Kelly would also be available to work in other schools should they desire as well as other companies that Kelly deals with should the sub be interested in more work than could be provided at the school.
If Kelly managed this service for the school it would free up some time for Val and Sally which could be utilized for further support to the full time staff within the school as well as parents.
Initial cost comparisons appear to show that the actual cost of the service will be break even or maybe slightly more utilizing Kelly Services but I want to see the actual numbers before saying that with any certainty. However, utilizing the service removes all risk of fines. If the decision is made to go with Kelly Services and it proves to be too expensive or inefficient, changing back is easy to do, so I see very little impact with trying this out.
I realize that there are many concerns within the community about this potential change. Like all potential change there is always concern over moving to a new way of business. I am certain that there will be some bumps in the road if we utilize Kelly but those will get worked out and in the end the Subs we have in the classrooms on the whole will be on par with what the subs we currently have.
If anyone wants to discuss this with me directly, I welcome them to contact me at this e-mail and I will get back to them with an answer as quickly as my schedule allows.
Jasen
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Thank you, Jasen, for the response as to why it is being looked at. I'm a bit unclear as to the reason, however. The school is required to offer health benefits under the Affordable Care Act to full time employees. A full time employee must work an average of 30 hours per week or 130 hours per month. Subs are not full time. I doubt any of our subs work over or even close to 30 hours in a week on a regular basis. I'm confused as to why the school would be required to offer health benefits to them or incur any penalty for not doing so.
The school currently has a system that works well. If it's not broken, why are they trying to fix it?
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If the concern is that subs can't work more than 30 hours in a week without having to pay healthcare costs, how would shifting the subs to Kelly save anything if subs have to work the same hours regardless of how they're hired?
Or is the idea that the district moves its "dirty work" to someone else? Is Kelly planning on paying healthcare costs, or will they just "manage" subs to keep everyone at 29.5 hours?
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Actually it's not uncommon at all for a sub to work an entire week or more at a single school... And I've known people that have worked nearly every school day in the same district.
Whether I agree with the outcome or not, I think it's great that the school board is looking at options instead of keeping things the same just "because that's how we've always done it". If you don't look at options you never know if something better (or that provides more value) might be available. Bravo for not being close-minded as this tends to happen too much.
I happen to know that some subs would jump at the chance to [work with a temp agency] and have some sort of benefits available.
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This still sounds like the bus issue. If Kelly has to pay for health care...we will pay for it, and we will also pay Kelly so they can make a profit.
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Someone please clarify for me why the school will be penalized for subs working over 30hrs? Even if the ACA states health insurance must be offered by the employer, the employee can decline. Change for the no reason other than to make a change is not often a great idea and the improvements garnered are often little or none. Microsoft never really improved much beyond its Windows 98 OS, yet moves people to a new OS every few years Paying a middle man is not about saving it's about convenience.
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If subs are not offered benefits now but the ACA says they should be, then why would they decline. You're likely not working a benefited job if you can take 30 hours off. Then again, you could have other coverage from a spouse or other situation. But when you budget, you budget worst case on benefits so you don't get severe screwed if someone decides to take 10k+ in benefits you didn't plan on.
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TMB- I've mentioned this before, but there is a difference between "cost" and "value". While the upfront cost may be higher to go with a subcontractor, I can only assume that the school board has reviewed the value proposition and determined it to be the better option. As Jasen explained in his email, the potential fine for miscalculating something could be very high and if a subcontractor is wiling to manage that risk then you need to put a value on that- which it appears they have done.
As far as the actual labor being provided, you're implying that Kelly won't utilize the existing substitute resources. Do you know that to be true?
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Any subs working for Kelly services will have to have the same background checks and qualifications as those hired now. As Trevor indicated many of them will in fact be the same people. Is there really an issue with people we don't know instructing our children? I honestly don't know all of the parents and grandparents of my children's classmates. And for the most part these are the people who are currently working as subs in our schools. I have no problem with that any more than I would with a Kelly services employee. I commend the school board for looking into different possibilities for us.
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Below is an excerpt from the FWSU Business Manager relating to this issue. Hopefully this will provide more insight into the reasoning behind exploring this option:
Also while the ACA has been in place for 2 years, I believe we have been exempted for those two years as a large employer.
"The requirements under the ACA are that employers track ALL employees who are expected to work less than 30 hours per week. As you surmised, we currently keep our subs in this category. We do not get to just say they don't work 30 hours though. We have to have a system in place to track all part-time employees, and review each employee status again after each year to be sure that they did not qualify for benefits. If an employee claims with the feds that they were not offered health insurance, and felt that they should have been, it is the employer's responsibility to prove that the employee did not qualify. If the feds find just one case where we should have offered benefits and we did not, the fine is $3,000 per full-time employee after a "freebie" of 30. So in our first pay run in May 2015 for Fairfax this could be a fine of over $200,000.
Additionally all hours for an employee are added together. So if a sub happens to also be a coach, those hours are added together to see if we meet the 30 hr threshold.For the FY16 budget I did add in some health benefits for subs. We have had a few that have meet the minimum requirement for a few months, and after discussion with the Board we felt it would be prudent to provide some benefits in case we are required to offer them. One last item to note; for the ACA tracking we do not count the weeks that school is not in session. So it is not an average over the entire year, but an average over the time that school is actually in session..
I understand that some individuals may believe that our substitute system is not broken, however, we at FWSU process subs for all 3 schools. The majority of the school personnel directly involved are experiencing frustration with the current system and asking for us to address the situation.
Some benefits that may not be well known are;
The training Kelly provides for its substitute teachers.
The benefits available to Kelly employees.
The ability for substiutes to customize their own schedule. They can select what schools to work in, what days they are available, reply to openings electronically and see a work calendar.
Most sub coordinators are doing a lot of employee shuffling because they are unable to fully staff substitutes for the absences with the existing sub pool. Though this will still be required, we anticipate that there will be less of this. All sub coordinators currently have calls coming in after hours (evenings and early AM). They will no longer be required to be on the job for whenever a staff member calls with an absence. A significant amount of HR hours are spent on hiring substitutes who do not end up working very many hours (or at all). This time would be better spent addressing the needs of our permanent employees- Just a few that I have noticed are: getting leave plans fully set up before school starts, ensuring contracts/letters of hire for new employees are issued quickly.
I hope this gives you a broader picture of why we are considering this move"
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What do other area schools do to keep track of subs and coaching and hours worked? I know other school systems have solved this problem without using the Kelly Services "solution".
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I think a concern with the younger children and those with special needs that are young children is parents and teachers have worked to get subs for the para educators that work well with the child and also limits the disruption to the student and the class.
I understand those parents concerns and I think there could be a happy medium to all this. You have to remember that child's disruption of change does not end when school does. Can we work together on this? I would certainly hope so....
I had responded to you Jasen on the reply of your email to me about the subs with no response...
Jasen,
Thank you for the reply. I think many are more concerned with the effects on the Elementary children subs and para educators and how the local subs provide familiarity and less disruption then if they were to have someone unknown to them.
Would it be possible to do this for say the middle school and high school and leave the existing process for the younger children?
I think this could help make the decision a win win for the school board, children, and the parents with the compromise from what I am hearing.
~Mary Kay Raymond
So I would like to know why.
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MKR, I do not believe that is a possibility because all of the issues about hours are still in play but you should speak with the business manager at the FWSU. The ACA is really the driving force behind all of this. It's a complicated and messy bill to say the least.
My experience with agencies as a Human Resources Manager in the UK has been positive. With a little bit of communication the agencies like Kelly will normally work with you to make certain that you receive the level of service you desire. For example, if you know that a certain person works best with a student requiring one on one, you can request that person by name and as long as the person is available you will receive them as a sub. I also suspect that Kelly has a good pool of licensed educators who are looking for employment and trying to get their foot in the door of local schools, so one other added benefit may be that we could have licensed educators working as subs. I am not a hundred percent certain on this point but it seems logical to me that this would be the case given the high numbers of people who apply for jobs at the school.
I really don't believe anyone is losing or winning with this, I believe it's just a new way to conduct business that protects the school from the potential of large fines that would have drastic impacts on the school and the quality of education that could be provided.
Also if the school decides to utilize this service, Kelly has agreed to take on anyone who is currently subbing for the school which should mean minimal disruption for the kids.
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I truly hope it all works this way and that the special needs of children are a priority when it come to sub selection for them. Thank you for responding.