Henry Raymond

Fairfax News => Current News & Events => Topic started by: Henry on April 28, 2008, 08:06:17 AM

Title: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: Henry on April 28, 2008, 08:06:17 AM: Does this mean anything??

(http://www.vtgrandpa.com/photos/albums/forum_photos/bfa_080428.sized.jpg)

The above information was on a link shown in this morning's Burlington Free Press:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080428/NEWS/80428009 (http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080428/NEWS/80428009)
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: Scott Lang on April 28, 2008, 10:48:17 AM: Hello Henry and Community Members
I wish there was really a simple way to describe this "Accountability Piece" of No Child Left Behind. I'll give you my simplest take, with a commitment to write in more detail for the June edition of the Fairfax News. First, the results from the statewide test were embargoed until this morning as they were being checked by local schools. There were some issues about counting students who should not have been counted and some other challenges. Here is the short version about what it all means. Schools must meet a target score for their students on this test to achieve Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP). They must meet it as a whole and as any identified subgroups that are larger than forty students (the forty number is to preserve confiidentiality within sub groups) and within subtests on the test. Those groups include students from minorities, students who receive free or reduced lunch, students with disabilities, students for whom English isn't their native tongue, and so on. BFA is divided into two schools for this report - k - 8 and high school. The K - 8 part of our school is in the second year of not meeting AYP. The high school was just identified for the first time based on tests given in the fall. Again - the short version is that schools who do not make AYP must put together a plan - we have done that - to address the issues. There is technical assistance provided. After several years in that category, if the school doesn't make sufficient progress, then a higher level sof support and constraints are imposed - locally, we have seen some of that at MVU. But the bottom line is that schools are required to help students perform at higher levels than they are and that they must have plans in place to do so. There is a great deal mopre to it than that but again in the short version, one test given in the fall to all students in grade 3 - 8 and 11 determines whether the school makes AYP. A final note on this attempt, most if not all Vermont Schools with populations over 40 in those sub groups will be on the list for not making AYP within a couple of years. Feel free to call me, Dave buckingham, Tom Walsh or Lisa Delorme for further explanation.
Scott Lang
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: kschmidt on April 28, 2008, 01:32:23 PM: Hmmm.... maybe this is why you saw so many houses for sale yesterday Henry.
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: mirjo on April 28, 2008, 08:58:38 PM: The standardized tests that the students have to take to get these "scores" are ridiculous, because A. it's a 'standardized' test and if we know nothing else about our children we know there is absolutely nothing that is standard about their individual learning/testing styles, B. On any given test day a student can be having a bad day for one reason or other that causes them to perform poorly or they may be someone that always suffers test anxiety, C. There are the older students who simply don't care about the results or what they might mean, so that will throw off the numbers and sometimes after several hours of testing students are just sick of it, so whatever is last that day is not optimal.

What is unfortunate is that these tests are mandated by the government with money and such attached to them without any concept that they are indicative of...not much really.
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: kschmidt on April 29, 2008, 06:44:53 AM: I completely disagree. These tests hold the school accountable. The school district was even able to choose the type of test to administer. These tests were not difficult. It was all very basic learning that the students had the entire past school year before the test to master and/or get help with. Although I agree that students have different learning styles, these tests shouldn't have been the most taxing if they knew the information.

Not every teacher is communicative with parents either. Test results help many of us to see where our child may need help. If your child is college bound it is unreasonable to think that the tests they will have there will be skewed. They will have to get over "test anxiety" and know the information if they want to graduate. It's part of life.
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: Scott Lang on May 01, 2008, 11:58:32 AM: A quick clarification for the posting - kshmidt - which called the tests "easy" and said that the "school chose it." No on both accounts. The test is very challenging - and may be among the most difficult in the nation. It is built on the standards and grade level expectations in the Vermont Framework of Standards and Learning Opportunities. Kids in grades 3 - 8 + eleven spend six days testing in the fall and three more in the spring taking this assessment. The test was designed based on high performance. Three states participate in the NECAP program. The truth is, if we wanted an "easy test" we would have gone to a version of a normed exam the the National Assessment of Educational Progress which lists Vermont Schools as the highest scoring in the nation, instead of a criterion referenced test which demands that all kids achieve the standard. I strongly agree that the school should be accountable to students, parents, taxpayers and community members and we are glad to be so. Finally, under NCLB, states are charged with coming up with the accountability measure. I am glad to live in Vermont where we are not afraid to use a challenging assessment and where we are always about getting better each day and each year. I would be embarrassed to work in states that have chosen less challenging assessments, and still do poorly.
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: kschmidt on May 01, 2008, 02:38:11 PM: Mr. Lang,

I'm glad to see your second letter had less typo's than the first. Actually, Richard Cate, the Commissioner of Education for Vermont, is quoted as saying that these tests are not hard and contain very basic information (Burlington Free Press). The same article declares that each state is able to pick which assessment to use (my apologies for saying school district previously). He calls for a sweeping change of the state's education system because students are obviously not learning.

It's amazing how you can quote statistics that are in your favor but so many excuses are given when they are not. The fact remains that the information given in these tests should have been taught the previous year and students should have been given help to learn it if they were having difficulties. Thank you for bringing to the attention of all parents that there are actual standards that should be met. They can be found on the state department's website and are listed by grade level. I encourage every parent to make sure your child is on track with these.
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: greenek on May 01, 2008, 04:00:57 PM: I may be wrong, but there may be a factor that hasn't been raised regarding the recent test scores. The last comment brought up a good point:

"I encourage every parent to make sure your child is on track with these."

The sad reality is that not all parents provide the same level of encouragement or support for their child's education. If the child is not getting support at home, it can be very challenging for them to learn while at school. This may not be the case in Fairfax, but I know teachers in other districts who have sent letters home with students, advising the parents that there is a concern regarding their child's progress at school. In many cases, there would be no response from the parents.

Our son has been out of school for almost 10 years, and my wife and I always took an active interest in his education. If his grades were not reflective of his capabilities, we would work with him and his teacher to help improve them.
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: Loctavious on May 01, 2008, 04:33:11 PM: That's actually a HUGE part of this issue - the PARENT's ROLE in education. The school can only do so much. One can see the uphill battle teachers have when students come to school either tired ( because parent's don't enforce realistic bed times) under nourished due to no breakfast ( due to either parent's not policing their kids to have breakfast - it IS the most important meal of the day for students), or ill-prepared because good ole mom and dad didn't make sure they got their homework done or got the necessary supplies for school.

ALL too often parents look to the school for answers and don't realize they NEED to be part of the solution or are part of the problem. I FIRMLY believe that a huge part of the childs probelms STEM from parenting. I challenge anyone to come up with statistics that prove that assertion wrong. I'm not saying there aren't schools out there in our country that are just failing horribly, what i'm saying is that the issue is larger than how much your school is doing for you and your child. If IN FACT one can prove a school is not doing as much as it can, then i encourage anyone to find out why instead of just saying the school stinks or is failing. Find out if the funding is there. find out if the logistical and technical support is there. Find out what the demographics of the surrounding towns are.

It's WAY TOO easy to read an article or two and then make sweeping conclusions about who's fault it is. And it seems some folks have done just that. Not to mention nit pick and take tones with people who ARE immersed in the situation. As i'm sure we'll continue to see as it's real easy to be Sunday quarterback.
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: PotterFXFD on May 01, 2008, 07:36:36 PM: I will agree a good education has to start at home. If my daughter is falling behind it is my job as well as the schools to make sure she catches up.

I also remember taking similar test in high school. At that time it was a big joke to just fill in circles to make patterns, and not even look at the questions. I am sure there are still a few students that do the same. A better question is how to structure the tests so students take them more serious.
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: Loctavious on May 02, 2008, 08:39:01 AM: I know my parent's tried to help me in school, keep me on schedule and the like, but My need to be popular overrode any academic endeavors. I basically learned in class and went out all the time. After 8 kids, i guess my parents were tired.
I take full accountability for it, and vowed to do whatever it took to help my daughter avoid that road. Thus far, she loves school and has made honor roll every semester up until this year when she got 2 'B's which really upset her.
When progress reports showed her slipping in anything we addressed it, when it seemed as though she wasn't studying enough, we studied with her. When we were interested in somethign she was learning, we had her teach us.

I agree, as parents, we're the very first educators of our children, what we do in theose first few years, can have a HUGE impact on the learnign lives of our children.
Title: Re: BFA Fairfax Report - Anyone Know What This Means In Simple Terms
Post by: mirjo on July 24, 2008, 10:10:23 AM: This is long after the fact of this conversation, but maybe someone will revisit.

Everyone has a point here and to an extent everyone is right, but it is not as black and white as we're trying to make it be. Standardized tests are exactly what the name suggests, they are standardized to fit an expected mold. Not everyone fits, but everyone is expected to fit within the range and YES, test anxiety and the like are real, some very intelligent people do not test well at all and as much as we can blame some parents for not being as involved as we think they out to be, there are some kids that perform below grade level regardless and believe it or not, these are not necessarily the "troublemakers." They are hard workers who really struggle and their standardized test scores are lower and really skew the numbers for a school. This population of students is one reason BFA is having issues with this.

Also don't discount the older students who simply "fill in the circles" as Dean pointed out he once did. It happens still and it's really not possible to have someone sitting with each student to determine whether or not a question is being answered for real. This stuff affects "the numbers" which is what these tests are mostly about.

I firmly believe in education, I believe schools and tachers especially need to be accountable for the quality of their work, I think BFA is and has been a fine school, but I am also a realist. I know that every teacher is not going to be great, which is what we expect, I know that students learn information differently and one teaching technique may not work for everyone in the class, grades are totally subjective, and standardized tests are not a good gage of someone's actual intelligence. If it makes BFA feel good to say that they use a difficult test to hold themselves accountable, so be it. However, the truth is likely that BFA has less control than we think. State and Federal government mandate most of what happens in education. I don't think these tests do much except stress the students & teachers and satisfy requirements.