Henry Raymond

Fairfax News => Current News & Events => Topic started by: special ED on March 03, 2009, 06:24:31 PM

Title: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!! (2 Pages Of Responses)
Post by: special ED on March 03, 2009, 06:24:31 PM
how many of you woke up this morning and said you know what I would really really like to pay more in taxes this year?,from the count this year must have been just about everyone,Can someone tell me the thinking in this cause I`m missing something and by the looks of it something very big,maybe I need to see a shrink? next year I am going to suggest to raise school taxes by double of what they are asking for and see the reaction I get ,and I will still be labeled a nut .....help me GOD
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: cestreet on March 03, 2009, 07:54:42 PM
As you may have noticed, things cost more these days.  That includes those costs paid for by public dollars.  The size if the increase in Fairfax is relatively small.  I get the idea from this post and your previous posts that you have a problem with public funding of most things.  Maybe you ought to start a formal Libertarian movement of your own.  I, for one, think that would be more constructive than snarky and insulting internet posts on this website.

Clarice Streets
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: greenek on March 03, 2009, 10:28:41 PM
I feel that the Fairfax School Board did an excellent job this year coming up with the proposed budget. They also did an excellent job going into great detail at town meeting, clarifying each section of the budget. There wasn't too much discussion after their presentation, so the information seemed to be sufficient to make an informed decision on how to vote on Tuesday. I know that I had an idea of how I was going to vote before I went to town meeting, with very few questions. The information presented at town meeting answered all of my questions.

Kevin
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: special ED on March 04, 2009, 03:46:58 AM
CLAIRE are you in  anyway supported ,funded ,connected to the school or state in any way cause if you are then your opinion is mute
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: 7F24 on March 04, 2009, 05:17:02 AM
SPECIALed

I am not "supported ,funded ,connected to the school or state", and I agree with Claire and Kevin.  I was at town meeting, I heard most of the presentation.  What part do you disagree with?

Tom
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: cestreet on March 04, 2009, 07:01:28 AM
SpecialED,
If you're asking whether I work in the public sector, the answer is no.  Of course I am "supported ,funded ,connected to the school or state in any way"  - I live here!  My children attend public school.  I pay taxes.  As such, my opinion is no more "mute" than yours.
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: logical on March 04, 2009, 08:35:30 AM
I also agree w/Claire & Kevin on this one.  In fact doesn't Fairfax have one of the lowest cost per pupil in Franklin County?  For that we should be grateful. 

In another post on here this morning I saw information regarding full day kindergarten.  As noted in prior posts I too support this initiative.  I think that by investing in children's education early on you are in the end saving the town $$.  In fact doesn't part of Governor Douglas' letter regarding cutting back on budgets this year mention something regarding investing $$ in early education?  I beleive I read this on this forum somewhere earlier this year.  Even given all of this if the school board felt that it was necessary to not invest the extra $$ into kindergarten this year I support them.  I do however hope that in future years they readdress this issue.
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: mirjo on March 04, 2009, 11:55:30 AM
 A gentleman in central Vermont said it best on the news last night (I don't have his exact quote) but the jist was that we spend a lot of time  complaining about nickels and dimes, but ultimately if we ignore the needs of the kids, we are going to end up with a "Bunch of dumb kids."

The Fairfax School Board was very aware of the fact that everyone is a lot prickly this year especially regarding the budget. They did a good job initially with it... there was less than a 4% increase, then went back and made some very thoughtful cuts to trim fat, but preserve what's important and what makes the school a good school.

An increase of 1.49% is really not something that anyone should complain about. Everything else around us is up much much more than that, so really the school budget is a good thing.
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: special ED on March 05, 2009, 05:04:41 AM
I guess I am asking how much will it take for you people to say no more spending ,how much more can you afford? you have to have a limit
Title: Increase was reasonable
Post by: David Shea on March 05, 2009, 09:35:41 AM
Hello Everyone,

I agree as well that the school board did the best job that they possibly could given all of the factors that they had to consider.  The explanation, at town meeting & in mailed print, for how cuts were made and why they were made was very clear and well thought out.
A major part of every schools budget increase is made up of salary increases that are negotiated by the teachers union & the school board.  These negotiations for increases in benefits are difficult or impossible to change once made.

I did not agree with all of the cuts that were made to the budget as I would have like to see an increase in Kindergarden or at least equal access to pre school.  Currently only a percentage of Fairfax youth can attend pre school due to space limitations ect.  One of my children has gone to pre school at BFA & the other I have to pay for out of pocket to provide the same type of education experience.  I would not feel right about not giving both of my kids a chance for equal education.

I noticed that the School board positions all ran uncontested.  I would encourage anyone on this forum to run for a local office.  As a member of the School board or selectboard you have the opportunity to write the budgets and determine what is spent.

As my High School French Teacher, Stan Hancox, used to say, "Actions speak louder than words".

I believe in full disclosure. I do not work for the school, but am a resident of Fairfax.  I attended the Fairfax schools for 12 years.
David Shea

Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: Loctavious on March 05, 2009, 11:11:04 AM
That's a great topic area to explore for a minute David - one reason for increases in education speding being salaries.  Sometimes, i think that we the public hold public officials or, in this case teachers, to a different, almost Samaritan measure.  " Be an effective teacher, care for my child as if your own, and do it all for the lowest price tag possible."  We've had this delusional approach to education for a long time, that we can pay the people responsible for teaching our kids about the world and how to change it, a small amount of money to get our most ideal results?  On top of that, whenever we do make progress, it's as if some approach it as a 1 time deal.  Just as we all like to get our so-called raises ( 'so-called' because some of our raises equate almost exactly to the cost of living increase - thus we never really make more - just the amount to get by)

Let's look at this from a different, and maybe faulty angle.  If we put more money into Teacher's Salaries than say, paying our law-makers, might that not effect a change in the very issues our law-makers work on?  If we didn't let those certan kids slip through the academic or behavorial cracks ( either because they've almost got all they need to move on or to address their behavior would cost more money and man-hours) couldn't our crime rates be lower becuase more kids are kept engaged and thus away from bad influences/paths?  Couldn't the extra attention and care by paying more teachers to do better jobs, possibly evoke more compassionate students and kids which just might go out and volunteer more or spread positivity more or denounce bullying more?

Just a basic and perhaps overly simplistic perspective - but doesn't it sound 'OFF' that we pay the individuals and institutions responsible for preparing the next generation to be better than the last, a paultry amount to do so?  It makes perfect sense to invest in tomorrow for a better tomorrow.

 

 
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: 7F24 on March 05, 2009, 09:56:46 PM
special ED

"I guess I am asking how much will it take for you people to say no more spending ,how much more can you afford? you have to have a limit"

That really is a good question, and I don't know what the answer is.  I bought my first house for $15,000.00, I never thought I'd spend more than that on a car.  I remember when gas went over $.50 a gallon, I thought that had to be the ceiling.  I remember cigarettes in the machines for $.50, and I thought those people were crazy.  I guess some of us are not near our limit, and others are probably well past it.
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: mxdave on March 06, 2009, 01:37:28 PM
Wow 7F24, You must be realy old.
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: 7F24 on March 06, 2009, 02:15:14 PM
"Wow 7F24, You must be realy old"

I didn't think I was until I read what I wrote.
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: mirjo on March 06, 2009, 02:53:42 PM
Arguments over school budgets/taxes/teacher's salaries/ what is, what was, and what should be are as old as dirt!!!

We all just have a new way to discuss and complain about it. SpecialEd has an ax to grind as many others who feel they're paying too much for  these things do. Trying to impart any kind of logic on an age-old problem with two sides that are rooted so deeply in their own beliefs is as futile as discussing politics with a staunch Republican and Democrat and expecting a change of fundamental opinion.

Until some genius comes up with a new way to fund public education, this is the model we have. The key is to be as fiscally responsible as possible and make the most with what there is. I firmly believe that BFA does that. An overview of their budget  history will show there
 really isn't  ever a lot of excess and the school offers a lot to students for being so small. This makes it attractive to kids in surrounding towns who need to choose a HS. Tuition students are good for the bottom line.
 
A look at the test scores and the achievements of the students it's easy to see that BFA is a good school, because it's supported. I'm sorry that not everyone can feel that way, but everyone has to do what's right for themselves. SpecialEd, I hope you can make peace with the situation at this point and get more involved in the future so you  have a voice and not feel like a victim.

MXDave, you must be really young, because everyone over a certain age knows that AGE IS A RELATIVE THING! ;-)
Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!!
Post by: YouAnnMos on March 06, 2009, 09:23:51 PM
Mirjo wrote the following and I must have to admit that there is a point being made here. 
Arguments over school budgets/taxes/teacher's salaries/ what is, what was, and what should be are as old as dirt!!!

We all just have a new way to discuss and complain about it. SpecialEd has an ax to grind as many others who feel they're paying too much for  these things do. Trying to impart any kind of logic on an age-old problem with two sides that are rooted so deeply in their own beliefs is as futile as discussing politics with a staunch Republican and Democrat and expecting a change of fundamental opinion.

Until some genius comes up with a new way to fund public education, this is the model we have.


Mirjo also wrote the following:
A look at the test scores and the achievements of the students it's easy to see that BFA is a good school

Forgive me mirjo.  I’m not picking on you.   This just happens to be the append to put me over the edge.  In my opinion there has been WAY TOO MUCH emphasis placed on the ‘Test Scores’.  Since you did not mention the ‘NECAP’ scores specifically then once again I beg for your forgiveness if you were referring to a different set of test scores .  The NECAP scores have been brought up in numerous places over the last two weeks and used in a positive manner.  The NECAP advertisements seem to be  suggesting improvement from year to year and  touting BFA as a good school.   The NECAP results have appeared in the School Budget flyer, were presented in the School Budget presentation during Town Meeting and have been brought up in numerous appends on this forum. 

Let’s take a close look at the claims and reality:
Taken from the School Budget flyer:
•   “BFA Fairfax students in grades 3-8 scored higher than the state average in the NECAP assessment in all areas”
Our kids were slightly higher in Reading 74% to 71%
Our kids were slightly higher in Math  68% to 65%
In Writing our kids scored 18% higher than the state 73% to 55%. Quite an achievement for these students.  The writing score was only the result of grades 5 and 8.  Since grades 3, 4, 6 and 7 were excluded from this testing the results are not a true gage of our entire primary population.
We didn’t do quite as well in Science.  In fact at 46% we were lower then the state average of 48% contradicting the claim made in the School Budget flyer ( see above ).
Also taken from the School Budget flyer:
•   “and demonstrated continual improvement over the past year.”
Again looking at the numbers the statement is true.
o   Reading scores increased from roughly 68% to 74%
o   Math scores increased from 61% to 69%
o   Writing increased from 61% to 73%
o   Science no data available
Folks we are talking year to year here.  From one years’ grades 3-8 to another years’ grades 3-8.  The same group of students are not taking the test from year to year.  The 8th graders move on and the prior year’s 2nd grades start the testing.  Also, not sure how much this affects the scores but new students come in from surrounding schools in the 7th grade each year.  If you look at a longer term you would tend to see peaks and valleys and if you look at the data from 2005 to 2008 that is what you see in almost all areas of testing.

The high school numbers should not even be discussed as any kind of ‘trend’.  The 11th grade is the only class that takes the test each year.  The 11th graders are being compared to in effect other 11th graders.  Not sure how you can do any sort of trend analysis. 

One last thing on NECAP.  I’ve heard an almost boasting going on both at town meeting and in this forum that we are scoring higher than the state average.  In some areas we are and in at least two areas we are not.  But folks, even beating the state average we still have, at best, 25% of our kids doing below proficient levels.  In some cases High School Math and High School Writing more than 50% of our kids are below proficient levels and in High School Science a full 75% of our students are testing at below proficient levels.

I’ve heard and read that Farifax is beating the state average in NECAP scores.  Well, they are in some areas and they are not in others.  Beating the state average should not be the goal here.  How could I, a parent of school age children, be proud of a school system who seems to think achieving a score of 48% proficiently rating is ‘OK’?

What to do?  I don’t know.  I started this append by agreeing with a statement that Mirjo made. Until some genius comes up with a new way to fund public education, this is the model we have. It just hits a nerve with me when the school board and school administrators try to sugar coat the numbers.

Title: Re: raise my taxes PLEASE!!!!!! (2 Pages Of Responses)
Post by: mirjo on March 08, 2009, 09:38:11 PM
I'm NOT a fan of NECAP, however the government IS. One problem is most people don't get what the numbers mean, I admit that I don't get what they all mean (and there are PLENTY of numbers and percentages when it comes to NECAP), but I do know enough to know that those small gaines that YouAnnMos  is complaining about are huge, especially when the numbers are consistently going up.

As for the science numbers that are missing, there has not been testing for that for very long and there isn't much  data. Everything you mention is a fundamental problem with No Child Left Behind, the great education law that holds schools accountable for how well students perform on the NECAP exam. The exam scores should not be compared from year to year, because it's not a true representation of a student's actual progress, but that's how it's set up, by the government. There are tons of rules that govern it all that schools must follow and pay for.

If you've ever heard a teacher or administrator comment on "under funded mandates," that's the big one right there.

The NECAP scores are not the only indicator of BFA's success, I think the achievements of the students says a lot.