Henry Raymond
Fairfax News => Current News & Events => Topic started by: Mummy on July 21, 2010, 04:20:13 PM
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Lock your doors when approaching the flashing yellow light in town after dark. There has been a group of adults hanging out there and you don't see them because they are in the shade next to the red house. Don't know where they come from but often I see misc cars entering at night and someone approaches the car and off the car goes. Not sure what the attraction is there after dark, does anyone know?
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meth lab??????
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There has been that sort of activity taking place there for at least 3 years now those appartments seem to attrack a rough crowd for some reason. When I work for the Sherrifs Dept. the area was talked about quite a bit.
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So the obvious question should be "Why Not" This is ridiculous.
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That was what I thougt .... Why not? No one to question you.
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Well you know that loitering Ordinance that I ask about introducing a year ago would be a prime fit for this situation. I only got negative feed back from all residents though so here we are. There is nothing illegal about hanging out in group no matter what time it is so what do you want Law Enforcement to do?
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I might add that I know they aren't fishing at 9:00 pm off River Road when a bunch of trucks pull in for 1/2 an hr. and then all leave at once squeeling tires and speeding all the way down the road. This happens at least three times a month. They don't even have time to drink a beer so you can guess what the interaction is all about. And this is on private land so the Sheriff isn't patroling!
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Judi,
I am unsure if you mean the pulloff on river rd where fishing does take place. As far as i know there is nothing there stating it is private property and it is maintained by the town. It this is to be deemed private then there needs to be signs a barricades put up. You cannot enforce private property if it is not posted.
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I believe she is speaking of the spot after the bridge across from Shepardson Hollow RD.
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Well you know that loitering Ordinance that I ask about introducing a year ago would be a prime fit for this situation. I only got negative feed back from all residents though so here we are. There is nothing illegal about hanging out in group no matter what time it is so what do you want Law Enforcement to do?
This is only my way of thinking but ... someone selling drugs or worse isn't going to follow a Loitering Ordinance ... perhaps in a perfect world. Also, if the Sheriff can't control Th's illegal Loitering or the Stat Troopers how would a Loitering Ordinance enforced by the Town or Town Constable going to work? Perhaps I don't understand.!
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It would allow Trooper's, Sheriff's or the Constable to make contact with people. You can't as a police officer just walk up to someone give them a hard time then pat them down and find drugs like in the movies. Those cases don't ever make it to court because the initial interaction was not legal. It wouldn't matter if the cop finds 3 pounds of coke on the guy if it was obtained through a unlawful means IE. a bad stop it is no good. A loitering ordinance would allow an officer to see a group of people hanging out in the center of town and make a lawful interaction with them. At that point while the officer is speaking with them he can build reasonable suspicion. Do they smell like marijuana? is their behavior eratic? if they are under 21 do the smell of alcohol? this helps a good officer build a case to search someone and find drugs or contraband. Then in a perfect world that subject will flip on his buddies and so on.
Have you ever been pulled over for having a License plate light out at 1130pm on your way home? The officer doesn't really care about your plate light... It does however give him a reason to make contact with you and see if you are a drunk driver.
Oh and yes you are right someone that is dealing drugs or worse isn't going to listen to the ordinance that is the point. we don't want them to.
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Yes, I have been stopped at 3 a.m. in Milton. The first thing the Police asked me was "Where are you going?" then "Where are you coming from?" He was disappointed to hear "to home and from work." Any way ~ I think it is obvious to most of us that it is here in Fairfax. What I heard on TV about the ST. Albans and Georgia bust was "I just mind my own business!" Or "I live right next to them but never knew what was going on!" What should be evaluated now by everyone reading this is .... at what point is it your business?
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Courts have been battling with that question as long as there has been a little thing called the Bill of Rights that pesky 4th Amendment LOL. It sucks but Criminals have rights to often it seems they have more rights then us Law Abiding Citizens.
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You are correct, the spot after the bridge and across from Shepardson Hollow Rd is the place I am referring to!
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It would allow Trooper's, Sheriff's or the Constable to make contact with people. You can't as a police officer just walk up to someone give them a hard time then pat them down and find drugs like in the movies. Those cases don't ever make it to court because the initial interaction was not legal. It wouldn't matter if the cop finds 3 pounds of coke on the guy if it was obtained through a unlawful means IE. a bad stop it is no good. A loitering ordinance would allow an officer to see a group of people hanging out in the center of town and make a lawful interaction with them. At that point while the officer is speaking with them he can build reasonable suspicion. Do they smell like marijuana? is their behavior eratic? if they are under 21 do the smell of alcohol? this helps a good officer build a case to search someone and find drugs or contraband. Then in a perfect world that subject will flip on his buddies and so on.
Have you ever been pulled over for having a License plate light out at 1130pm on your way home? The officer doesn't really care about your plate light... It does however give him a reason to make contact with you and see if you are a drunk driver.
Oh and yes you are right someone that is dealing drugs or worse isn't going to listen to the ordinance that is the point. we don't want them to.
I agree with all these things!! If we do not do something it just gets out of hand. My kids are young and starting to get to the age that they want to just hang out with friends and this would be a great way to control the where when and who they can just hang out with. When I was young the was a ordinance like this and it just like FXDHS said it didn't stop it put law enforcement could approach the situation!!
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Is there anything illegal about a law enforcement officer approaching a group of teenagers at night to say "Hi, How's it going?" Is there anything illegal about a cop "walking the beat" so to speak. It doesn't have to result in a bust, or even a search. It CAN be a face to face meeting to let them know directly that they are being watched.
If kids are at an age that they just want to hang out with their friends, and you are concerned about their choice of friends, then the PARENTS have choices: keep them home; allow the "friends" to hang out at your home for a supervised visit. Those are the things my parents did. Yeah, at the time I thought it really sucked. I felt like a social outcast at times because I wasn't at the parties that it seemed like "everyone" else was at. BUT, the end result: none of us (total of 6 kids) ended up involved in a teenage pregnancy, none of us have criminal records, and 5 of 6 all completed HS and are working on (or completed) college. There is NOTHING wrong with telling your kids "NO, YOU CAN'T GO OUT WITH _____, OR DO xxxx." It will not kill them, or make them socially inept.
I am normally against MORE police, because it often seems they are more concerned with daytime revenue generation than nighttime crime deterance, BUT, as long as they are partrolling for suspicious behavior more than they are sitting (waiting for speeding motorist), I'm as willing as the next person in town to spend a little extra on local coverage. In the mean time, I'll continue to exercise MY rights and defend MY home to the fullest extent the framers planned for.
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As I have been reading these numerous comments here, it would be interesting indeed to talk with Irving Geno and ask how he would handle this particular situation. Irving, as many of you know, grew up here in town and spent many years as a law enforcement officer. He could probably tell you many a story of incidents right here in town. I would say he was pretty familiar with most shenanigans.
My youngest daughter was driving up Sand Hill Road one day and saw the pickup truck in front of her with her number plate taped to the back window. When she told me, I called Irving. I won't give too many details, but the individual had gone over to the BFA Parking Lot and taken one of her number plates off her car and duck taped it to his rear window.
Oh Yes, she got her number plate back
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I agree that an ordinance could help the issue. Either civil or criminal. Both to generate revenue and to deter the situations. From my as i was taught by my father there were two ways to learn. Money and pain is what he used to say. But why are we not talking to the land owners. John Zeno owns the land on river road and has it opened to fishing, and i believe one of the partys own the land on shepardson hollow rd at the culvert. Why not start with the land owner. If they do not want to the post their land for trespassing an ordinance would not help the situation.
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" to generate revenue"
I don't think we should be making laws to "generate revenue". We have too many of those already (tax laws). I also really dislike punative fines that are charged against people/companies, but the money goes into a general fund and isn't used to help correct damage, or prevent future problems.
Posting property would be good for issues like teens loitering, but trucks pulled over beside the road and then taking off after a couple minutes. I doubt posting property would do any good in that situation (it occurs and is over too quickly for police to respond unless they are sitting and waiting, they may still be in the right of way of the road and not be trespassing, and pulling over beside the road to talk with someone does not constitute "suspicious" behavior).
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cedar is right look at what happened up in Brighton with Ted miller he singlehandedly lost business for that entire town with his famous stop sign fines