Henry Raymond
Fairfax News => Current News & Events => Topic started by: roadkill on September 09, 2010, 06:14:31 PM
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I think that this man needs to be arrested immediately as a matter of National Security, This man is an idiot and an exact opposite of preaching peace. If I were the President of The United States this man would be in jail; as a matter of National Security,,,, plus hes an ass.
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are you kidding me ,this is an golden opportunity for the CIA to take pictures of the radical side of Muslims
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He has the right to burn the Koran if he wants. But he is a complete idiot if he does so. It will inflame radical Muslims to more violence against Americans. The latest news is that he has decided it was a bad idea to do it, and has said that he wont.
Special Ed, that's just plain sillly. Anybody who is potentially a real danger (meaning intelligent) wouldnt be showing up there.
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I know its silly but if I said I would like to join him you would call me crazy so better to be silly than crazy,I think it is funny that one little man can cause so much strife all over the world
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I wouldnt have called you crazy, but perhaps another idiot like the preacher. ;)
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What is silly here .... is that anyone is paying any attention to this whole thing. How many times has the Bible been burned? or the American flag been burned? This is America ... where you can do anything and it is your right!
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True story in California on the 5th of May a high school of 600 kids took down an American flag burned it in front of the school and raised a Mexican flag in its place. I did not see any news coverage on this event when it happened!!
Now some Preacher and his six buddies are going to burn a couple Korans and it makes headlines for a week!! All kinds of bleeding hearts speak out against him and people freak out about it for a week!!
Here is a story http://www.military.com/news/article/judge-overturns-nebraska-flag-mutilation-ban.html
(http://www.military.com/news/article/judge-overturns-nebraska-flag-mutilation-ban.html) It's called the first amendment if it works this way for these pieces of trash this guy should be able to burn away in my book.
Is it a smart thing to do? NO it is not that's why he isn't doing it but he sure did show how our priority's are screwed up in this country!! In my opinion anyway.
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If the press had ignored this idiot, no one would know or care what he is doing.
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Apparently he is now "rethinking it". It now has been postponed not cancelled.
Whatever.
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I'm getting bored with all the religious tolerance stuff in the news lately.
All we ever here is tolerance of Islam. Let them build a Mosque at ground zero. Dont burn the Koran.
I'm looking forward to Christmas, when we can get back to INTOLERANCE, and start hearing all the stories about cities banning the Manger and Nativity scenes
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To add to your post Josh, that same day, I believe same school a couple kids wore tee-shirts that had american flags on them. The school actually threatened them if the tee-shirts weren't removed they would be suspended. This is in America!!! Heres the article
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local-beat/Students-Wearing-American-Flag-Shirts-Sent-Home-92945969.html
On a side note what does everyone think of Burlington shutting down all its schools today so that their muslim resisdents can observe their religious holiday today? Kinda rubs me the wrong way.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20100910/NEWS02/100909023/Burlington-schools-take-a-Muslim-holiday
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I think ALL government employees should have to work ALL religious based holidays (unless they fall on a weekend, or the employee uses vacation time). No Christmas off, no Easter off. Don't give me the excuse that Christmas is now a secular holiday because most people who celebrate it are not religious.
The government and media can "preach" religious tolerance, and can force the removal of religious symbols on government property (and apparently on private property too if your neighbors don't like the cross in your front yard).
It always confounds me to hear stories about schools forcing kids to NOT do something patriotic (like wearing a flag shirt) because it might offend someone. Are you freaking kidding me??? IF the red, white, and blue of the flag of the United States of America offend you get the 7734 out of our country. Go live with the extremist muslims, or anyone else for that matter.
As for this character in FL, it wasn't a news story here in the US until it became a news story over seas thanks to a Muslim tolerance group beating their drum in FL. That story was picked up by several Islam supported media sources over seas months ago when he first started talking about it. It has been building up steam over there, and then became a story here.
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I have been thinking of what to say here...but figured this article does a better job than anything I can say...
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/09/10/ramadan.roadtrip.folo/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
And, for the record, according to the rules - wearing the US flag as a garment is wrong. And T-Shirts with flag representations are considered "flags". The Flag Code states that the flag should never be worn. (Section 8d): "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel."
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You are 100% correct the rules say the flag should not be worn as a garment of clothing or on a garment of clothing, but whats a bigger disrespect to our nations flag? Having it on a t-shirt, or lowered from the flag pole and burned? Its bad enough that sort of thing happens on a daily basis in certain countries overseas, but its also becoming common place on our own soil, and we're suppose to turn a blind eye b/c whoever is burning it "its their right to do what they want", but not our right to speak up over it? Whatever this is going to turn into a completely different topic so we'll keep that one for a different day.
My gripe about the burlington schools taking today off for a Muslim holiday is this. How often do you hear people complaining about how religion shouldn't be in schools? The pledge of allegiance can't be said in the classroom anymore because it says "one nation under god". But a school gives a religious holiday to a religion that at that school takes up around 7.5% of the population? If we're going to keep all of our residents happy should we also have these days off?
January 26th: Australia Day
February 14th: the Chinese New Year
Ash Wednesday
March 17th(st patricks day): Irish religious holiday
Good Friday: Christian religious holiday
Could go on and on. I'm just saying if religion should be kept out of school then ALL religion should be kept out of school. Just my opinion.
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Here's the quick link from Margie's post:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/09/10/ramadan.roadtrip.folo/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn
(http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/09/10/ramadan.roadtrip.folo/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn)
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Shadylane, I only made the comment about the flag because of the change in this thread. There is a significant difference between burning copies of the Quran and burning an American flag. I don't agree with burning the flag, but...the Quran is the "word or God" to an entire religion. The American flag is the symbol of one country. Muslims live everywhere - they are not a country. If a Muslim group in the US decided to have a Bible burning day, that should be viewed the same way as a lunatic "Christian" preacher deciding to have a Quran burning day.
One of the things people forget: the people who died on September 11, 2001 were Christian, Jew, Buddist, Muslim, Atheist, and so on. And the Muslims who died were not just the hijackers. To condemn an entire religion because of a radical faction isn't fair. If we do that, there are plenty of other religions that should be condemned...Christianity is right there, too...
I also read the article about Burlington schools giving today off for the Muslim holiday of Eid - the end of Ramadan. They are also giving Yom Kipur. Unfortunately. the Freep chose to not give the population percentage of Jewish students. That would be a good thing to know.
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if the day off from school was sept 9 th it was Rosh Hashanah which is a jewish new year celebration and its the first of a ten day celebration which ends on Yom Kippur
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Burning of any book and or any flag in protest is ignorant.
No matter what your beliefs are towards either.
What does it gain? notta.
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and how is it no one has reference Fahrenheit 451?
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Our son has been in Afghanistan just over one week and today his base had motor rounds outside of it all because of this thing going on in Fl. He said the Afghan people don't know or care that this minister cancelled his plans, they are just upset because he even thought about doing this. The safety of our military should be the most important thing right now and this certainly did not help.
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and how is it no one has reference Fahrenheit 451?
Fahrenheit 451 might be a bit too heady for this conversation at the moment, but it's getting there.
Flag Burning: Is it disgraceful? YES. Should people do it? NO. Should people have the right to do it? YES. Should the government mandate that citizens not burn the flag? NO.
As US citizens we have certain inalienable rights and one of them is the right to burn our own flag if we so choose. Another is freedom of speech, which includes the right to trash talk our government/president publicly While neither could be considered best practice, it is what makes America free. It's the very thing that our soldiers stand for. We all should revere and respect the flag and be concerned about why the flag burners are burning the flag. That's the question: why are they angry or are they just doing it because they can? Consider the alternatives when complaining about things people should and shouldn't be allowed to do.
Religion If organized religion ceased to exist and people just kept their spiritual beliefs to themselves the world would be a much better place. I am so sick and tired of hearing this pissing contest about whose religion is better/more real than whose being played out between the three main entities: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam! None is any better than the other, every intelligent person should know this.
The biggest boobs of the bunch are the self righteous bible thumping Christians. If they spent less time pounding their bibles and condemning people and more time reading them and actually live by the words they profess to live by, which I believe is supposed to be tolerance, love, and understanding. Instead of this over-the-top BS! It's not a political thing, it's a religious thing.
Open your Qurans, your Torahs, your Bibles and read the damn things--if your God, Allah, Yaweh is telling you to act like a damn fool, then my bad, but unless you're a twisted fundamentalist sub group of your primary religion, chances are you aren't getting that message! I shout this to all the zealots around the world--even though they can't hear me!
The preacher in Florida is an idiot--and the press is ridiculous for allowing this to go viral! If he wants to burn a quran because he thinks it matters, he should be able to, but because some jackass decided to make it public, it makes it a very dangerous situation because of all the hatred and intolerance in the world right now ALL IN THE NAME OF GOD!!! He doesn't even realize the ramifications of what he's doing now that it's known all over the world! He's too stupid to understand that he is putting lives in danger, for that matter so is the press!!
Where is God here? I want to know where this gracious, merciful, kind, loving God is that I heard about in my Catholic education. Where is he in all of this? Why hasn't this minister had a conversation with him about this situation? Are we to believe (if we believe) that this gracious, loving, forgiver of sins, let-me-carry-you-when-you-are-weak, all powerful, all knowing, god of ALL MENwas going to sanction this act? It's ludicrous and largely why I have issues with the church.
Church & State Should be separate. Period. This country was founded by people seeking religious freedom from King James I and the Church of England. Schools could still say the Pledge of Allegiance--some do, with students choosing whether or not to participate. I don't know why it has "one nation under god" in it, but no one has to say that line if they find it particularly offensive Getting bent out of shape about not observing Christmas on government property is just further proof at how ego-centric the whole Christian thing is! There shouldn't be any religious anything on government property, it's what makes sense.
Book Burning As Mike said, is ignorant. All of this hoopla is spawned from ignorance. People everywhere need to educate themselves a little bit and stop watching so much cable news!!! Those networks are just poison to society, they have done far more harm than good. 24/7 of on air space to fill is NOT a good thing--and if this quran burning story isn't proof of that, I don't know what is. Hyperbole is not news.
Charles Dickens said it best in 1843 through the gracious Tiny Tim: "God bless us, every one." :-)
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Nothing more to say...thanks, Mirjo.
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Nothing more to say...thanks, Mirjo.
Ditto,
NICE Mirjo!
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Are we now allowed to lead a conversation about the Constitutional framers' opinion / original intent of our Constitution as it relates to the separation of church & state? The Constitution did not create a nation, nor its religion and institutions. It found them already existing, and was framed for the purpose of protecting them under a republican form of government, in a rule of the people, by the people, and for the people. The belief of separation was to avoid mandating a national church & religion, thereby allowing all people to form their own opinion. While in Europe nations that had established religions, enforced the legal observation of it by law and with its law, compelled people to worship God in the same manner as the law said. The people were not allowed to worship God in any manner that was contrary to what was established by the state.
With that being said, there is no Constitutional support to claim that religion can only exist on private property (property not owned by government). As a result of the separation of church & state, the people are allowed to have their own opinion on religion and allowed to take their own actions. Through public (government) acknowledgment of religions and their holy calendar dates, the government is recognizing the people's ability to practice their religions without interference. Celebrating any religion's spiritual holy days with the government's "blessing" is the truth that we are a nation that recognizes the separation of church & state. Thereby, by our government recognizing its people's decision to worship in the manner they do, our government has solidified the importance of being a nation of an interfaith discipline.
Thus, I take no issue with our government publicly acknowledging the importance of it's people's faiths, beliefs, and religions. As long as our government doesn't apply it's power to legislate law and interfere with our rights to religious belief, we should all be thankful.
Amen
p.s. Before someone says something ignorant about my use of the word Amen, know that its the the same word used by Christians, Jews, and Muslims. I find it ironic that in the end, all religions say the same thing...
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Thus, I take no issue with our government publicly acknowledging the importance of it's people's faiths, beliefs, and religions. As long as our government doesn't apply it's power to legislate law and interfere with our rights to religious belief, we should all be thankful.
Amen
Amen
I want to add that in light of everything being so slanted toward Christian views and the lack of general knowledge through out this country and clearly the world that all religions are built on the same basic tenets, it seems in the best interest of everyone to just keep it all out.
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FYI from another part of the country. This morning I attended the Wheaton Bible Church with my son for the " middle " service ( they have three at different times of course ) and read a request put into their bulletin from that Church to its parishioners to be sure to visit their Muslim friends in the future and take along their bible , in order to spread the gospel to " those " people. Is this an elitist area or what , since the thought of spreading tolerance is either forgotten or out of place with the Wheaton Bible Church's plans for the Muslim Population ?
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Many evangelical churches do believe that it is their responsibility to 'make disciples for Christ,' meaning that they must, at any opportunity, endeavor to 'save' people, and bring them into their particular Christian fold. I do not think they would perceive this behavior as elitist, but as part of their mandate as born again Christians.
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You're probably correct , Reverend , in terms of those particular Christains' Fundamentalist thinking . On the other hand, I would suspect that my feeling that the WBC's idea of the tolerance contained in the First Amendment is a long way from what the writers of the Constitution had in mind. The concept of elitism is still prevalent in that religious community ,I think .........and maybe a little narow-minded considering the billion of Muslims worldwide.
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When the (TV) media pick up on something and "run with it" please remember, at the end of the day their goal is to get eyeballs to screens...nothing more.
Joe
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" If a Muslim group in the US decided to have a Bible burning day, that should be viewed the same way as a lunatic "Christian" preacher deciding to have a Quran burning day."
I honestly believe that IF a muslim group, or any other group chose to burn a Bible (or stack of bibles), you would see protesting, but I DON'T think you would see mortar attacks on anyone with the same nationality (or even remotely related to that nationality) as the Bible burners.
10's of thousands of people rioting (their effigy burning protest turned into window smashing, looting, and shooting at soldiers) in the streets in a single city does not represent a "small percentage" of the Muslim community.
"Tolerance" always seems one sided. We have public officials preaching to us that we must be tolerant and understanding, but I wonder how many high level muslim religious leaders and political officials are preaching tolerance of the west to muslims in the middle east. My guess is few to none for they are afraid they'll be shot by extremist (or maybe even some not-so-extremist).
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Viewers=$$$
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Mirjo, thanks for your thoughtful comments
Regarding your wondering why the pledge of allegiance has "one nation under god" in it, originally it did not. During the communist scare and Joseph McCarthy's persecution of anyone who didn't "toe the line" during that period of hysteria, the phrase "under god" was added. Few politicians dared to state the obvious, that this was fundamentally contrary to the principles upon which this country is based. That would have been political suicide, because like today, fear was being used to keep the common folk from questioning, and anyone courageous enough to speak the truth was vilified. It was a time when faith in one particular god was equated with patriotism, and any other belief was condemned as traitorous. It's too bad we're going through that again now.
There is no freedom of religion without freedom from religion.
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religious intolerance? try Saudi Arabia, no christian churchs are allowed and no christian can go inside of mecca
does the Vatacian prohibit non Catholics?
Burning another religons Holy Book is wrong ,if you do not like it ,be a man and walk away.
the on thing that a lot of people do not realize is that over in some of these countries human life has no value.
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So most of us agree it was stupid for this mis guided soul, or as I call him, MORAN, to even suggest this?
He and his 50 member congregation must be so proud.
Where is GW when you need him?
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Ya but look at how famous he is. I hardly ever see these discussions go to 3 pages. Some people travel to every starbucks in the world and some threaten to burn a book. It is what we make of it. I don't understand this tolerance thing though. Not in this case only but..tolerance, tolerance, tolerance. I say no tolerance in a lot of cases. Sometimes common sense should take over "your rights". HELLO It should be more like "is it for the betterment of society and community"? You don't see people freaking out over me burning my self help books. hee hee
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My Protesting for Dummys book says I am supposed to burn a stuffed representation of a social leader in in front of a news camera in response to the threat of burning self help books. Anyone want to help me make a Shumlin Dummy?
(Note for this hypersensative society in which we live: the above comment is not a threat to any social or political leader. I'll leave that to the extremist of the world).