Arizona

[Carolyn Branagan]

Yesterday’s shooting of a congresswoman in Arizona while she was meeting with her constituents shows what can happen in our country when emotions and threats get out of hand. This is America at its worst. News reports are indicating that the suspected shooter is mentally imbalanced but police authorities don’t think he acted alone. The local sheriff there is blaming ‘vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country’. This rhetoric may have encouraged the shooter, especially the Palin/Tea Party’s well publicized statements about making Arizona a target. This cannot continue.
Our nation is based on the power of laws, not power by force. Threats against anyone, including public officials have no place in public discourse and should not be tolerated. Our government functions within peaceful transference of power. The understanding that every citizen has a voice that should be heard allows decisions to be made in the ballot box, not by the aim of a gun. Those who choose to vote exercise their voice in government direction and control.   
Here on Henry’s site there have been from time to time comments that I felt were out of place. I’ve tried to be good natured about them, but remarks such as politicians should be ‘tarred and feathered, pitch forked, drawn and quartered’ are over the top and can no longer be tolerated. And while some may find strongly worded comments like that entertaining, the commentary has to stop. There is no place for them in a peaceful society.
In light of the very sad events in Arizona, I hope Henry takes those vicious comments off this site. We don’t know who may be reading those comments nor do we know what they might do.
Please pray for Congresswoman Gabby Giffords and especially for the 6 people who were killed in yesterday’s shootout. We need God to bless America now more than ever.
Rep. Carolyn Branagan
Franklin-1Fairfax/Georgia
Vermont House of Representatives
 

[Henry]

Caroliyn, I have read your post here on Arizona and your suggestion that I edit or remove the post that say certain things.  I do read each post, but try to not critique/edit each one so that I don't prevent people from expressing themselves.

This would be like a student writing an essay the way he thinks his teacher would like him/her to.

I personally do not agree with all the comments that are made on this forum, but feel that people need to express themselves.  The people that mention "tar & feather", "draw & quarter", "pitchforked" would never do that and I doubt are putting any ideas into any mentally deranged individuals head any more than if they watched the news on television.

If I find anyone attacking any local individual, then I certainly will step in and do/say/edit something, as I have in the past.  We are approaching Town Meeting Day and hopefully the comments will not get out of hand, yet people will be able to express themselves and say what they want to say, so that a fully informed decision can be made when it comes time to vote.

[Carolyn Branagan]

Hi  Henry,

Thanks for all you do for us. I don't know the people on this site very well, especially since many use names that are not their  own. But it is good to know that you know them and I trust your judgement. It looks like Congresswoman Gifford will survive, but she still needs our prayers. So do the families of those who were killed or wounded. This incident is really terrible and could happen anywhere.

Thanks again for all,
Carolyn B.

[Henry]

Thanks for the update on Gabby Carolyn - I will also say an extra prayer for her.

[rod anode]

HENRY a true american hero

[Thor]

Henry,

     Didn't think I was making any "vicious comments" or would put you in a position to have to "defend" me or the fact that I would not do anything like "tar & feather" someone. I thought for sure the folks reading this could see that. I made those comments purposely, in order to eliminate the possibility of anyone mis-construing those as threats, as they were all things done during medieval, colonial and revolutionary times and are not done nowadays. Those comments were simply to make the point of how frustrating it has gotten dealing with the current political / economic climate. So to make sure that it is clear to everyone; in no way, shape or form, should those statements be mis-construed and from now on, I will refrain from showing my frustrations in such a manner. Thanks Henry.

                                                                                                                                         V/r,

                                                                                                                                             Thor



     

         

[cedarman]

While I sympathize with Carolyn's sentiment and concern, I respect Henry's position about refraining from cencership except in cases of personal attacks / threats from one person to another.  It is a tough decision that requires an incredible strength of character to defend at a time like this when it would be SOO easy to justify the "need" to restrict the nature of individual discourse.
I could see this incident easily leading to new attempts at gun control/bans for all when this horrific incident was the result of one disturbed individual (I use the term disturbed not as a personal reflection on the individual who did this, but in the general sense that ANYONE who would do this sort of thing is truly mentally disturbed in some way).

[rod anode]

thor you big bully   ;o}

[Thor]

Ed,

     I know... I know... I have learned my lesson. And to prove it, I have sentenced myself to 200 lashes and a keel-hauling. (just kidding people!!!, I won't really do it!!!)

[Stand Alone Defense]

I think a good Flogging at the blinking yellow light in town is more appropriate hahahaha.

In all seriousness though thoughts and prayers out to Gabby and her family.

[Rev. Elizabeth]

The question is: does violent language beget violent behavior?  When discourse is reduced to name-calling; when political debate loses its anchor in fact;  when we slander our opponents by labeling them with noxious and hateful  identities, are we creating an environment in which  behavior that reflects the language is implicitly encouraged? 

[rod anode]

in the mind in the person doing the calling might just see it that way,for example you take obama now he is a liberal ,spend happy democrate , please dont tell me he isnt a liberal ,please dont tell me he doesnt like to spend money ,and please dont tell me he isnt a democrate.................... god bless everyone

[Carolyn Branagan]

Don't worry, Thor, I know you are a good guy. You, too, Ed. In the light of a new day, I can see of course that you are not going to drive all the way to Georgia with a bucket of hot tar in the back of your truck. It's just......why did that guy think it was OK to shoot her? And those other people? And that little girl?  My heart breaks for all of them.

I love my job in Montpelier. The best part is being able to help people in my district, and now that I have some seniority down there I can make things happen. But I’ll never think of myself as a politician. I am somebody’s wife. Somebody’s mother, sister, daughter. I’m the church treasurer. But, sure, in the nine years I’ve been state representative there have been threats against me and against my family. It goes with the job? Why?   

Last Friday, before all this happened, legislators had a lecture from the statehouse police (yes there really is a Vermont Statehouse Police force) on what to do if something happened inside the statehouse, like a shooting, a fire, a bomb. Last year several times guns were brought inside the statehouse and confiscated, strange acting visitors were followed all day by security, bomb dogs brought in. Why do folks feel because someone runs for office, they are OK to hurt? 

The Rev. has a very nice way of distilling things down to a nice little question. Does rhetoric create behavior? Seems like it did in this case. So what will happen now?  It would really be terrible if this ended up causing restrictions in our gun rights, or caused some good people not to run for office, or made a voter think twice about coming to see me some Saturday morning. 

Dehumanizing others has consequence. Don’t forget that what we have here has value beyond words. If somehow we loose the freedoms we have here in America we’ll never get them back. Think.   

 
C.

[Thor]

That guy went to that gathering with one mission in mind. That was to assassinate Gabby Giffords. Why did he shoot the others? They were nothing more to him than targets of opportunity. I would assume that in his condition, he did not apply any reasonable thought to who else he shot. It is futile to ask why, when you are dealing with an individual who would do that act in the first place. After reading some of his postings on facebook, I believe that he had two extended magazines and had the intentions of causing as much damage and death as he could and then using the last round for himself. But the folks there stopped him before he could finish.

"Why do folks feel that because someone runs for office, they are OK to hurt"? Generally speaking, it is not a personal vendetta against any said official. It is against the party or some other larger issue. And the local politician becomes the focal point due to accessibility, visibility, and recognition. And again, you cannot ask "why" of someone who decides they are going to do something like that in the first place. There were an awful lot of people who had their fingers on the pulse of that guy in AZ, who could see this coming. In fact, there had been previous complaints to the Sheriff about this individual making threats against others in the area. His teachers, some of his professors, some local radio personalities, etc.... All of which the Sheriff's dept decided against acting on. So, this was a long time coming. Personally I do not think this is the result of political rhetoric. This kid has had "issues" for quite some time, and the authorities had reason and time to act on it for quite some time as well. I do not think this was the result of rhetoric. This was the result of somebody, so out of touch and so out of balance, that they do not / did not, care about what they are doing.

With regards to how this will effect gun rights, and the ability to get guns. Had the Sheriff, just once acted on one of the previous complaints about this individual making threats, when this kid went to purchase his handgun, he would have been denied. Had just one of those complaints been followed through on, this kids name would have been flagged at the gun shop on the instant check. Same would have been true of the Virginia Tech shooter. But the anti gun folks will take this one as far as they can take it.

So does rhetoric crate behavior? I don't think it does for the average individual. But it probably can for someone who is already a bit unstable and just needs a "push" to get him completely "over the edge".



mmmm