Obama Architect calls Americans Stupid

[Thor]

So one of the main Obamacare architects lets slip how they duped the American people. And says it was simple because the American people are to stupid to understand economics and don't question things that they are told are "transparent".

I wonder if Jonathon Gruber is referring to those people with Obama stickers on their car? Or at least the ones who are not smart enough to scrape them off even now.

[Thor]

Some additional insult; Vermont paid this guy $400,000 dollars for input on the Vermont Exchange. The one we spent $170 million on, that didn't work. Pure genius down there in Montpelier.

[mirjo]

What are you saying Thor, no one in the history of the US GOV. has EVER deceived the public before? That implication in itself is as laughable as it is hypocritical

Gruber may not be very bright, but he's at least honest and certainly isn't wrong in his assessment of the American public; however, ignorant would have been a better word choice. Most people are uneducated about politics; economics, world affairs, and  what's going on in the rest of the country in general. A poll of random people on the street in any city in the US would reveal very few know who the VP is or that there are three branches of the government, or how many senators there are. and some are hopelessly clueless about what is/isn't a state, plus any number of other general things that should be common knowledge for any HS student or graduate.

Even though you're calling foul, because your sensibilities have been insulted--you can't possibly deny that overall the majority of people don't have a clue about economics or a lot of other things pertaining to government, business, or politics. Maybe you do, maybe your acquaintances do, but you are not a majority. There is a lot I don't know about the things I mentioned and would fail if asked and I know more than a lot of other people out there do.   His comments, are a reflection of politics as it's always been, at least in our time and therefore I don't see any reason to be insulted by them.

I think the 50s and (maybe) 60s were the last time there were politicians in office who actually cared about the American public as they're supposed to. It's a sad state of affairs we have going and not because Jonathan Gruber has loose lips. :/

[rod anode]

hold on .....let me make some popcorn first

[Thor]

I am not insulted by Gruber, as I was not one of those people who supported Obama or his Obamacare / socialized medicine plan. He is going down as the most corrupt, incompetent, arrogant, piece of garbage to sit in the Oval office. But what you seem to be putting aside is that he, and his administration are just plain liars. And for you to say that Gruber is honest, is absolutely ridiculous. Perhaps the American people are not as educated on all aspects of politics, but that caveat does not act as a qualifier for his being honest. It has already been proven that Obama aides told him that he should not tell everyone that "if they like their plan they can keep their plan, period", "if they like their doctor they can keep their doctor, period", "costs will go down an average of $2,500 bucks", but he did it anyway, around 40 times, knowing it was an outright lie. Now we have Gruber revealing that they purposely "tortured" the wording in order to go around the CBO and the American people. That lack of transparency is a "valuable political tool", in order to dupe the American people. You wordsmith it to call it "deceive".... it is a lie. Do you remember when Obama said in the debates with Clinton (in the primary) and McCain (in the general) that there would be "no mandate associated with Obamacare"? That was a lie. One of many that have been told regarding this subject and a multitude of others.

What we have is the most dishonest administration we have ever had. The liberal president can only lie, to move the liberal policies forward. That should say something about the liberal agenda. In fact, perhaps the last election shows that people are waking up. To use idiot Obama's own line..... "elections have consequences". But he has no humility. He believes the Dems got their asses kicked because of the people who did not vote. Like everyone who did not vote would have voted for him. Are you kidding me Obama?

And Obama and Pelosi don't know who this Gruber is.... even though Gruber had at least 8 meetings with Obama and his crew in the White House, and Pelosi mentions him in her sales pitches on Obamacare. Now they don't know who he is. Hilarious.

[Stand Alone Defense]

And Obama and Pelosi don't know who this Gruber is.... even though Gruber had at least 8 meetings with Obama and his crew in the White House, and Pelosi mentions him in her sales pitches on Obamacare. Now they don't know who he is. Hilarious.

That's the best part of the whole thing!! They flat out lie and say they don't know him and no one even calls them on it.

[kpplus2]

What are you saying Thor, no one in the history of the US GOV. has EVER deceived the public before? That implication in itself is as laughable as it is hypocritical

Gruber may not be very bright, but he's at least honest and certainly isn't wrong in his assessment of the American public; however, ignorant would have been a better word choice. Most people are uneducated about politics; economics, world affairs, and  what's going on in the rest of the country in general. A poll of random people on the street in any city in the US would reveal very few know who the VP is or that there are three branches of the government, or how many senators there are. and some are hopelessly clueless about what is/isn't a state, plus any number of other general things that should be common knowledge for any HS student or graduate.

Even though you're calling foul, because your sensibilities have been insulted--you can't possibly deny that overall the majority of people don't have a clue about economics or a lot of other things pertaining to government, business, or politics. Maybe you do, maybe your acquaintances do, but you are not a majority. There is a lot I don't know about the things I mentioned and would fail if asked and I know more than a lot of other people out there do.   His comments, are a reflection of politics as it's always been, at least in our time and therefore I don't see any reason to be insulted by them.

I think the 50s and (maybe) 60s were the last time there were politicians in office who actually cared about the American public as they're supposed to. It's a sad state of affairs we have going and not because Jonathan Gruber has loose lips. :/

Mijo: as one who has spent some time educating myself on the "affordable" care act and followimg the politcs very closely on this law, I felt compelled to respond after reading your response toThor. I can conclude that Mr. Grubers comment may be accurate with some people.

[Watchman]

I wish the passion and fervor in this thread would drift into a spirited discussion about the school system and the supervisory union. There seems to be a quite a few common elements......

[mirjo]

@watchman: I attended the SU mtg last evening with the expectation there was to be discussion on the BFA bus issue--as I had been led to believe--only to discover that either the discussion took place some other time or there wasn't one, because all that was said was that bids were going out this week for the SU and the next discussion on the topic would be at the Jan mtg. There was a dispassionate request from someone (presumably Fairfax board?) to be sure to compare  apples to apples, because of all that is going on with the Fairfax buses. Ned was his usual arrogant-ass self. I don't believe for a minute that the fairfax board is making any case for the buses. I was surprised to hear about the bids--I didn't realize it was there at this point--so I missed something somewhere or all the fervor on vtgrandpa has been exactly that--on vtgrandpa.

**************

Thor, Thor, Thor put down your hammer man, before you hurt yourself or others...I get it--you don't like Obama. Half of all voters don't like him. Fox news, Rush Limbaugh, and congress don't like him and that's ok. You don't have to, it's still a free country. This is not an endorsement, simply an observation of fact. The only thing different about the current administration compared to previous administrations is: It's the current administration! that's it--nothing more. All this blustering here & everywhere about lies this lies that, as though Obama & friends invented it or something, I will repeat, it's as laughable as it is hypocritical.

All presidents lie/deceive the public on something or other. If more people paid attention to things they would likely remember from one to the next and not be astonished all over again. It's like groundhog day with each successive administration. So your claim that

What we have is the most dishonest administration we have ever had.

is a blatant partisan hater comment, because it's not likely true.  But since you believe it to be--there is nothing I can really say.

The liberal president can only lie, to move the liberal policies forward. That should say something about the liberal agenda. In fact, perhaps the last election shows that people are waking up.

Why do you make such a sweeping arrogant comment about lying to move the liberal agenda forward? Again, are you saying conservative presidents don't lie to push their agenda through? Hmmm   

Okay.

I would counter that the last election shows that people are indeed clueless as Gruber said. This is why:

1) It's proven historically that people will vote out the controlling party every few years, thinking it will change things. But it never does. Big business owns congress and runs that show. Policy is written for the benefit of those paying for elections, not the American people. It goes across party lines. Corporations owe billions in taxes that they've wheedled out of paying through a tax loophole & congress won't/can't do anything about it--because that's where their bread is buttered.

2) A few years ago Mitch McConnell publicly said their agenda was to make sure Obama was a one term president--that shouldn't EVER be the agenda of congress regardless of political party! Yet he was voted back in for another term AND voted to be majority leader.    Others have said/done ridiculous things that make rational people wonder why they're in office, but it goes unnoticed in their home state apparently, because they get re-elected and shouldn't. We might be better off to add a few rides, a gate, and charge admission to visitors. Maybe change the name to Disney DC. We would make money then. Keep the same schedule with a new CEO every few years like big corps do. I doubt anyone would notice.

3) All the religion & politics mixing and the general belief--being proliferated by republicans in congress--that the country was founded on Christian principles, when it was,  in fact, not is more than a little scary. One's religious ideology is personal and doesn't belong in policy making or business.

Now that the republicans have control of congress they're all about working together, which they haven't been for 6 years. It's not ALL Obama's fault, despite what some want people to believe. Again, an observation, not an endorsement

*For Obama's entire presidency congress has obstructed many things--initially, change maker that he believed he was, he thought he could ride into Washington and make friends and influence people. He tried to "work across the aisle" repeatedly, to no avail. Of course that's not how it was reported by the "other side." He didn't ever have enough cojones to put his foot down where he should have. Then when he started to, he's dinged for being the obstructionist.

 *Bush tax cuts were to expire after 10 years--when the time came congress bullied hard to keep them going, by using extreme tactics and catch phases like "job creators" and such.  And speaking of lies: when all that Bush tax cuts business got mired in other business it never should have (thanks republicans-it's not just "the liberals" who are PITAs, believe me) and became a huge mess as the president attempted to make cuts for some people, the haters in congress came out saying he was raising taxes--when in fact it was a matter of letting temporary tax cuts expire as they were designed to do. While I didn't agree that incomes in the 250,000 range were all that high as far as tax increases go, I also felt that the tax cuts should have expired as designed and maybe that whole fiasco wouldn't have happened, but...(as you say) liberals must lie to get their way and (so) conservatives must lie to keep their wealth in play.

*The AHA was pushed through with a great deal of problems--that's a fact, but it didn't take effect for several years--it's my belief that was built in to allow time to work on it,
but instead of taking the four years to fix the problems, congress spent the entire time pissing & moaning about all that was wrong and did absolutely nothing with that particular bit of legislation that they supposedly hated nor did they come up with anything to replace it--they just bitched about it, like they've bitched about the president. and blamed him for everything that's gone wrong, whether it's deserved or not. I think healthcare is a broken system that needs many fixes in many areas. I think the AHA is a good jump off point, but is far from affordable (how can millionaires define what's affordable for the average person earning 40K or less?) and needs a lot of work. I fail to see what's fixed really. There are still ins companies involved that have huge deductibles on every plan (I've looked at a few) and from what I see, people are paying high premiums and getting major medical coverage for a catastrophic event, because most people are still paying out of pocket for every doc visit. It's really no change from what currently exists privately, which means there is no improvement, so what the hell is the point? I just renewed my insurance, as it's open enrollment right now and premiums went up, as expected, but in making my yearly plan/premium comparison  etc. The bottom line is: It's impossible to meet a 12K deductible, so it's pay it forward (in the premium) or as you go along (out of pocket) that's the real choice. Obamacare is the same from what I can tell.

*Even when Obama has agreed or attempted to agree with congress for some reason they can't abide like adults should. I recall one budget that Boehner and Obama were in agreement on and Boehner shot it down in the end--his own budget. And these are the people we should be happy to have leading congress?

I've gone above and beyond, of course. But...you should know by the roundtable discussions in the past that general comments like 'liberals lie' and 'this is the most dishonest administration ever' are going to cause me to turn on the faucets. I also know that those are just your opinions and this is what I have observed and believe to be correct. So...

Other than a way to blow off a little political steam, it really doesn't matter at all does it? Kind of ironic.

[cedarman]

And Obama and Pelosi don't know who this Gruber is.... even though Gruber had at least 8 meetings with Obama and his crew in the White House, and Pelosi mentions him in her sales pitches on Obamacare. Now they don't know who he is. Hilarious.

That's the best part of the whole thing!! They flat out lie and say they don't know him and no one even calls them on it.

Because they, like most high level politicians, think the same things about the general voting public (even Republicans to their choir).  Most politicians are smart enough, or well handled, to NOT actually say this in a setting where they might be recorded.   (Or maybe they have been recorded saying it and are doing various political mis-deeds to keep recordings out of the public lime-light).