Vigilanteism? Some locals are sick of the crime

[LauriH]

Mummy, If someone approaches me as I am out walking down the road and starts interrogating me, I am going to tell them to go pound sand as I am whipping out my cell phone to dial 911 because I have no idea what this person's intentions are toward me.

[Mark82]

Probably not going to get any better with the Department of Corrections releasing more "non-violent "inmates into the communities!

[Mike Raburn]

thank you,sorry beth your right

That's REV,,, to you Sir.

And by the way, I get reported to a moderator?

No justice, No Sleep..... I will go occupy my tent in Nome.

goodness!

[Loctavious]

Well said Thor.  When i am home- i wish i had the time to sit on the deck and watch the happenings around me... alas the gears of our society continue to turn and thus so must we.

I know the critter cam suggestion is more and more appealing as of late.

I agree that curiousity is a good thing in soem regards could go a long way.  But I aslo see the point about takign it too far.  A person walking down the road...... that would be going to far..... unless they've come from a parked car.

But then - that could open a whole other can of worms as we see people walking down the road, from parked cars/trucks, WITH rifles in their hands..... yet most of make the assumption they're just hunters.
 

[Thor]

Do not forget that "confronting" someone does not have to be negative or hostile or interrogative. I teach classes on how people can make contact with "suspicious" folks and simply engage them in conversation. All the while they are gathering pertinent intell on the individual. Getting a read on dress, appearance, posture, and social response. I would highly recommend that no one, turn a simple meeting into an "aggressive confrontation". But always be prepared to report anything suspicous immediately upon the encounter. Write the info down, image the person from afar with the cell phone, call your home or cell and leave all the pertinent info on your voice mail. Call a neighbor and provide the description, etc.... The problem nowadays is that people are afraid to be the one who cries wolf. But we do not have to cry wolf everytime. We just need to keep our finger on the pulse of the encounter, maintain situational awareness (at all times) of things that are out of the norm and so on. But in order to maintain situational awareness, one must first be aware of what the "norm" is.

[Mummy]

Yup, you are right!  This is what a community watch does and usually during the daylight hours retirees or stay at home mom's do see more than you realize.  You just need to ask them and living in a Bedroom Community it doesn't come easy doing so.

[Stand Alone Defense]

Josh, I think we know how to solve this problem. Gotta start developing a network, just like the bad guys have. Ops are driven through intel, and intel drives ops.

Agreed 100%!!!! When I was Constable I spent countless hours of my own time cruising the town looking for these scum bags.  I still do pay close attention to anyone I see that looks out of place!!   

[Chris Santee]

STATE OF VERMONT DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
VERMONT STATE POLICE PRESS RELEASE
Update on Home Invasion in Rutland Town
Sgt. Chris Barber, Rutland Barracks, 802-773-9101

Rutland Town, VT – 11/15/11 – On November 15 at approximately 10AM, troopers out of the Rutland Barracks responded to a possible home invasion on Quarterline Road in Rutland Town. Upon arrival it was determined that a white male wearing a blue hooded sweatshirt made entry into the residence through a bedroom window. The homeowner, Patricia Billings, age 49 of Rutland Town, was home at the time of the incident. Billings used a firearm to ward off the would-be suspect. Three shots were fired at the male suspect; it is unknown if the subject was injured as a result. The homeowner was uninjured during the home invasion.

A small red vehicle was seen fleeing the area at the time of the incident.

“We encourage members of the community to remain vigilant and take precautions to deter criminal activity,” said Lt. Chuck Cacciatore Rutland Barracks Station Commander. “In the event you believe your home is being burglarized, please call 911 immediately. Taking the law into your own hands may cause more harm than good.”

Keep your home safe and remember to:

·   Never open doors to strangers.

·   Secure your home with high–security locks and quality doors and window hardware.

·   Consider a home security system and even a dog.

·   Have an action plan for your family in case intruders enter.

Anyone with information regarding this incident is asked to contact Sgt. Chris Barber at the State Police Barracks in Rutland at 802-773-9101.

 

[Mummy]

OMG ....

Have an action plan in the event of an intruder!  Are they saying for the home owner to RUN or hide in their own home?  Shoot them and my back up plan is to continue shooting until I run out of bullets if they are in my house -  that is my plan.

[Thor]

“We encourage members of the community to remain vigilant and take precautions to deter criminal activity,” said Lt. Chuck Cacciatore Rutland Barracks Station Commander. “In the event you believe your home is being burglarized, please call 911 immediately. Taking the law into your own hands may cause more harm than good.”

While I completely support what the Lt has to say..... we must remember, this is the advice/input from the people who are minutes away when seconds count.

Mummy,

     Be advised, you have a pretty good plan, but as Vermont does not currently have the Castle Doctrine, my recommendation would be shoot until you have eliminated the threat. Then search for new targets/threats. But if you empty a magazine and then reload and start shooting again, you are setting yourself up for the infamous civil suit that Loctavious and I were discussing earlier in the thread. Additionally, make sure you have the gun put away, when "Johnny Law" shows up, so he doesn't enter, draw down on you, and further complicate things.

[LauriH]

Here are a few things to consider before you empty that gun.  How far and where are all of those stray bullets going to go.  How close and where are your neighbor's houses.  Is there a possibility that a fellow family member, in that moment of panic and chaos, could get between you and the person you are attempting to make into swiss cheese.

Oh and by the way, if you do have plans to use a gun to defend yourself, please get yourself trained and practice your aim.  Emptying your gun and hoping for the best really should not be your first plan of action.

[NPM, LLC]

I heard from Law Enforcement that the criminals are getting very smart/caulky.  They'll enter your home through your unlocked front door & grab whatever they can...so don't leave your purse/wallet/keys in eyesite near a window/door.  Also if you do happen to see them, they'll say, "oh, I knocked and thought I heard you say to come in".  Also heard that most are on foot scoping out the house w/ a plan of saying they need help (car broken down, need to use your phone, etc...) while a second is in a hidden car.  Bottom line, the criminals are lazy so don't give them an easy-in.  (I can't believe I'm going to say this, but if you do use your own vigilante methods, place a kitchen knife in their hand so you can say they threatened you...case closed...that also came from a cop.)

[Thor]

In reference to LauriH's concerns and points:

      Absolutely valid point on becoming intimately familiar with all weapons systems that you may have in your home. It is the owners responsibility to make sure that he or she is fully trained and competent on all weapons types. Daylight training, low light and in the dark. Can you draw, point, shoot and know where your rounds are going? Can you index shoot in the dark? Can you illuminate down range in order to positively identify friend or foe? Can you fix a malfunction of your weapon system quickly enough to prevent a threat from closing the distance on you? Have you trained to the maximum distance you may encounter within your home during a home invasion. Have you ever thought about how you would move through your house if you thought someone had gained entry? If you train to the point of these issues becoming muscle memory, you should be good to go.

      With regards to sending a bunch of stray bullets somewhere other than the intended target. Yes this is a concern, but once again, I would submit, that if you train properly, you will not live by the motto of "just send a bunch of bullets down range". In this situation, remember.... "you cannot miss fast enough"!! You have to hit what your shooting at. And you may not want to "empty the mag" or the cylinder on a single target when there is always the chance of multiple intruders/threats. And frangible ammunition is now available to the general public. If you live in close proximity to your neighbors or have family members in different areas of the house, frangible ammo might be a consideration. It will hit the target and break apart, thereby limiting the possibility of over penetration through walls, doors, etc... and minimizing the potential for catastrophic results from a missed shot.

     With regards to the potential of a family member getting between you and the threat, you just need to have a plan. If there are shots fired in the house, everyone just stay where they are. Don't come and investigate until an all clear signal (generally a verbal command) is given. That way, if there are multiple intruders, the only movement you hear will either be the second scumbag fleeing or coming in your direction. Either way, if you have trained well enough and are prepared to "identify threats", you will be ready.

[Loctavious]

I lock my door when we're home... seen too many of them Damn CSI or other shows where there's a home invasion.... just freakin' lock your door people!   What can happen scarsme enough to take reasonable precautions such as locking the door BOTH when we're away and when we're home.

Security systems, in this day and age, don;t need to cost thousands..... a simple motion activated internet camera system - costs b/w $150-$300 - depending on what type of resolution you want.... when activated, you program it to call you and other numbers.... this accopmanied with motion detectors on windows and signs of what you got going on VIA wirelss phone connections are moderate to heavy deterrents.  - Not knowing what or what you don't have inside your home .... certainly helps them weigh risk better.  I'd also suggest drawing blinds in the living room or any room that has expensive equipment in it - again - if folks are casing when you're not there - if they don't see anything of value - they can't really assess the value of the risk.

[Stand Alone Defense]

In reference to LauriH's concerns and points:

      Absolutely valid point on becoming intimately familiar with all weapons systems that you may have in your home. It is the owners responsibility to make sure that he or she is fully trained and competent on all weapons types. Daylight training, low light and in the dark. Can you draw, point, shoot and know where your rounds are going? Can you index shoot in the dark? Can you illuminate down range in order to positively identify friend or foe? Can you fix a malfunction of your weapon system quickly enough to prevent a threat from closing the distance on you? Have you trained to the maximum distance you may encounter within your home during a home invasion. Have you ever thought about how you would move through your house if you thought someone had gained entry? If you train to the point of these issues becoming muscle memory, you should be good to go.

      With regards to sending a bunch of stray bullets somewhere other than the intended target. Yes this is a concern, but once again, I would submit, that if you train properly, you will not live by the motto of "just send a bunch of bullets down range". In this situation, remember.... "you cannot miss fast enough"!! You have to hit what your shooting at. And you may not want to "empty the mag" or the cylinder on a single target when there is always the chance of multiple intruders/threats. And frangible ammunition is now available to the general public. If you live in close proximity to your neighbors or have family members in different areas of the house, frangible ammo might be a consideration. It will hit the target and break apart, thereby limiting the possibility of over penetration through walls, doors, etc... and minimizing the potential for catastrophic results from a missed shot.

     With regards to the potential of a family member getting between you and the threat, you just need to have a plan. If there are shots fired in the house, everyone just stay where they are. Don't come and investigate until an all clear signal (generally a verbal command) is given. That way, if there are multiple intruders, the only movement you hear will either be the second scumbag fleeing or coming in your direction. Either way, if you have trained well enough and are prepared to "identify threats", you will be ready.

Amen Brother!! You should teach a class!!

Very important to shoot to eliminate the threat only and not go crazy expending all your ammo.  2 things to remember are 1. like Thor stated, you don't know how many threats there are, if you unload on the first one you see, you could easily become a victim of a now pissed off second burglar.  They are working together so it is safe to say you just killed his friend,  you wouldn't be happy either.  2nd thing is if it for some reason goes to court and you are put on the stand, you are going to have to explain to a jury the amount of force you used and why.  It's a lot easier to articulate to your peers that you felt your life was in danger(very important), so you elimated the threat with 2 shots center mass(if you can say as I was trained to do, even better) rather then 15 lol.