Vigilanteism? Some locals are sick of the crime

[Kathleen]

I've been reading all this and am wondering WHEN did protecting your home and family on your property become Vigilanteism. In my mind vigilanteism is when you go out with the intend to hunt someone down and and impose your own justice, not drawing a gun on your own property to protect.

[Stand Alone Defense]

Good Point.................The times we live in I suppose. Today it almost seems that criminals have more rights than us law abiding citizens do(Great Movie and fits the discusion lol).

[Chris Santee]

The very first post mentioned heading out on the roads in search of bad guys
(or something close to that).

If you have been burglarized, check e-bay and craigslist for your stuff.
If you find it, call Vermont State Police at 524-5993.

[Thor]

The "vigilantism" actually came up in the orignial post. But, be advised, it can be construed as "vigilantism", even when you are protecting ones own family, home, property according to the true definition. Which is definitely a concern. Especially when we have local law enforcement telling us that we should contact 911 and let the authorities handle it, and not take the law into our own hands. I believe that all law enforcement personnel, have that as an automated response or advice, not that they all believe it.

Until the politicians here in Vermont, decide that the Castle Doctrine is a justified and necessary bill, due to the fact that there are limited law enforcement personnel to truly police the entire state, and there are areas (Fairfax) that have limited (might I say no coverage except for revenue generating speed traps). The Castle Doctrine protects one from prosecution, criminal or civil, should they use deadly force in the protection of their family, home and property. If you are carrying concealed and someone tries to carjack you, you are authorized the use of deadly force. Your car is your property. More so, if your family is in their with you. If you are on the street and someone decides to try to rob you, you can defend yourself with the use of deadly force. And quite obviously, if someone enters your home illegally, you are again authorized the use of deadly force. In a previous thread, I mentioned that there were certain criteria that need to be met to justify deadly force. To keep it simple, they are ability, opportunity and manifiest intent. If all three criteria are met, go ahead and double tap the scumbag, and be prepared to double tap him or her again, if necessary. But using reasonable and proportionate force, you should not empty the magazine into them, or reload and empty a second into them. Simply shoot to eliminate the threat and then search for new threats and be prepared to eliminate them as necessary. But it is very important that ultimately Vermont recognize the need for the Castle Doctrine and get it passed by the state legislature.

[Chris Santee]

STATE OF VERMONT DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
VERMONT STATE POLICE PRESS RELEASE

INCIDENT:Attempted Larceny
CASE #:11B203714
TROOPER: C.R.Field                                         STATION: Derby       
CONTACT#:334-881

DATE/TIME:11/14/11 1432 hours
LOCATION:Vte. Rte. 14/100 intersection, Newport Center
VIOLATION:Attempted Larceny

ACCUSED: Wayne Norway (43)Shirley Bobar (64)                     
CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE:Morrisville,Vt.

VICTIM: Charles Drown Sr.                                                             
AGE:71
CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE:Coventry ,Vt.

On 11/14/11 at 1432 hours myself and Cpl. Paul Mosher responded to

Vt.Rte 100 in Newport Center,Vt.to the property of Charles Drown Sr. (8/19/40).

Drown called 911 to advise he was coming home from deer camp and saw a black

Ford pickup backed up into his barn. Drown stated he confronted the subjects who

had loaded scrap into the back of their truck. He made the subjects identified

as Wayne Norway and Shirley Bobar unload the truck. Drowns blocked the vehicle

in until we arrived on scene. Bobar and Shirley admitted to the attempted

larceny and were cited accordingly with a court date of 12/13/11.

[Thor]

Josh,

     I am completely willing to assist our local community in any training they might want/need. Gotta find a time/place to do this if anyone is interested and keep it small for safety's sake. Way easier for me to keep eyes on a small class. My work schedule is quite hectic, but if we have folks who are worried about their safety and their ability to safely protect their families, home and property, I will assist in anyway I can. The way things are going nowadays, I don't envision it being too long before everyone recognizes the need to be self reliant in all facets of life. Additionally, I would add, anyone who might be interested, would have to be "vetted", so we are not disclosing methods we want to use against the "bad guys". OPSEC, OPSEC, OPSEC....

[Loctavious]

i think the obstacle Thor, to easily getting the Castle Doctrine passed is how some folsk might interpret and abuse it... as always.  There's always a select few idiots or overly aggressive folk who take things way beyond the intended interpretation or purpose.

Folks knowing they can claim defense, when really they're feeling like capping a scumbag to provide a service to society would be such a case.

But really would the good outweigh the bad.... for a while it would... until someone claims thei'e troubled child ( who they're wholly responsbile for their troubledness) was shot and killed due to the doctrine and thus why it's too much and too over the top.

I'm on the fence here - as i would not want to be questioned when i defended my family when a scumbag tried to invade my home.... who knows what their intentions are and what having a gun and using it would've prevented ( assault, theft, abuse.... theft of items used to kill or abuse or maim others.....)

[Thor]

Loctavious,

     The Castle Doctrine can only protect someone if they have used it accordingly. If you "abuse" it, you can be found liable for criminal and civil charges. Additionally, most folks who carry concealed, only do so in the event they encounter a situation that is a direct threat to them or them and their family. Most law abiding citizens would "retreat" from situations that they are not directly involved with or do not pose a direct threat to themselves or their family. For instance, you are in a Maplefields, gathering your items and someone comes in and attempts to rob the place. You are armed, what do you do? Again, I revert simply to, the 3 simple rules.... ability, opportunity and manifest intent. The robber has a weapon, baseball bat, crowbar or firearm, (thus he meets the ability criteria). You and the robber are in the same place at the same time, (thus he meets the opportunity criteria). Now, does he meet the manifest intent criteria if he is simply pointing the weapon or threatening the cashier? Yes he meets the manifest intent but only for the cashier. If he starts swinging the weapon around and looking at everyone in the store, in a threatening manner, (he has now met the manifest intent criteria for you). You can safely say that you were in fear for your life and those of the other folks in the store. As long as you were there legally, and he was not.... you can protect yourself.

     Would there be folks who would try to use this to "clean up the streets". Probably the Rambo's out there. But I would like to think that it would be very few and far between. And we cannot base the rules / laws of society off of the idiots. Like taking away the guns of law abiding citizens. Then only the bad guys would have the guns. If the bad guys do not know who might be carrying, or who might answer the knock on the door at night with a weapon in hand, or who might respond to a home invasion with a gun in hand, then it works in the deterent mode. If they know people are unarmed, whether out and about or at home, then they have the upper hand.

     In a nutshell, the chance of some knucklehead using the Castle Doctrine as a defense for using his weapon in an inapprpriate manner, should not inhibit the right to self defense for the average law abiding citizen.

[monte198]

There is a saying I take to heart that might work.  Tried by 12 or carried by six.  I can see the castle doctrine being abused but for those used properly it is an affirmative defense.

[Thor]

Absolutely concur Monte,

     And if you have enough lime laying around, the police never even have to be called!! Hence you do not even have to worry about the 12!! (That's a joke people!!!)

[Mike Raburn]

mike lives in alaska josh

Please elaborate, Special ED....
(Elaborate means explain further on your thought.. Though I'd take the hassle of you looking up elaborate in the dictionary) ((I KEED!))  (((NO really)))

[Chris Santee]

CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE: Bristol, VT
SUMMARY OF INCIDENT: Vermont State Police are investigating an attempted
Burglary at the victim's residence. Unknown individuals attempted to force entry
through the victim's garage door. The garage door jamb was damaged as a result
of the attempt. The property damage estimate is $100. Anyone with information is
asked to contact VSP New Haven Barracks at 1-802-388-4919.


SUMMARY OF INCIDENT: New Haven Troopers responded to a home burglary
in the Town of Monkton.  It is suspected that burglars forcefully entered the
residence through a locked window.   
A large amount of family jewelry was stolen. 
State Police are looking
for any information regarding this incident. 
Please contact New Haven Trooper Kaitlyn Armstrong at 802-388-4919.



On November 14, 2011 Vermont State Police received a burglary complaint located on Brown Hill East in the Town of Starksboro.  A residence was broken into sometime between November 9 and November 14 2011.  Anybody with possible information is asked to contact the New Haven State Police Barracks at (802) 388-4919.



Summary of Incident:
The Vermont State Police responded to a residence in Hinesburg for a report of a burglary of a gun safe.  During the investigation it was learned the suspect(s) removed a large gun safe with several guns inside using the victim’s truck that was locked in the garage.  The safe was located in a nearby town.  The safe had been cut open and the guns were removed.  The truck is a 1999 red Dodge Ram with a silver stripe and license plate XKVATE.  Jewelry was also taken.  The Vermont State Police are requesting anyone with information about the location of the missing guns, truck or jewelry please call the Williston Barracks at (802)878-7111.



it's all around us.............

but sometimes there's good news.......

SUMMARY OF INCIDENT: On November 14, 2011 the Vermont State Police made two arrests in connection with a West Fairlee home burglary which was reported in late July.  After several months of investigation, Logan Wheeler was arrested for the daytime burglary in which several items, including a shotgun, were stolen from a residence in West Fairlee.  Tasha Gero was also arrested for Aiding in Commission of a Felony for the same event.  Gero is scheduled to appear in Orange County Superior Court on December 21, 2011 and Wheeler is scheduled to appear in Orange County Superior Court on December 28, 2011.  Wheeler is currently serving a prison sentence at the correctional facility in Springfield, VT for a separate offense.

[Chris Santee]

CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE: Fayston, VT
SUMMARY OF INCIDENT:   
Anderson reported that she saw a strange vehicle driving up and down her road, ultimately parking in the vicinity of her residence for several minutes. She did not think anything of it at that time.  At about 0155 hrs, she heard scratching at her living room window.  Shortly thereafter, two males carrying what was described as a shotgun entered her front door, which was unlocked.  She screamed and the suspects fled.  The vehicle was described as a smaller, dark 2-door with stereo that had a “blue glow” to it.  Troopers searched the area and were unable to locate any matching vehicles.

Anyone with information is asked to contact Sgt. Ray LeBlanc at the State Police barracks in Middlesex at 229-9191, or to call the Central Vermont Crime Stoppers at 800-529-9998.

Residents are reminded that doors to homes and vehicles should be kept locked, and suspicious persons/vehicles should be reported to the police.