Vermont Tax on Sugary Drinks -- Thoughts ??

[msm]

Thoughts on the proposed new tax ?     

What's next ?   Why not a 2 Cent per ounce tax on Water Purchases ?    Lot's of folks buy water .. tax them !

Micro-Breweries are popular -- Add a Specific 2 cent per ounce tax for local Beer makers  ...

Another Option adopt the Washington State plan ..  Pay to drive .. 2 cents per mile ... 
 

The issue here is not enough Tax $$$$ or too much spending .. Government doesn't cut .. they add ... .So think about adding more revenue from Businesses !!!!     

How about taking a look at the New York State Program that is attracting businesses and using this approach in VT ?  Of course specific Industrial Zones would need to be defined.  Adding New Businesses,  creates an expanded tax base and also should keep some young professionals in-state.  Isn't it true that VT has the oldest median age of any state ?  No Jobs == Young Professionals moving to other states to find employment ..  Down-ward slide needs to be fixed ..



Partial Article from the Free Press below :

MONTPELIER – A proposed tax on sugar-sweetened beverages may be seeing new life in Vermont, while prospects for new revenue from bottle deposits and a tax on grocery bags look dim.

Lawmakers have been focusing on those consumer products this week as they look for new ways to raise money and to discourage what some see as unhealthy habits. The process is far from over, with the bills still to be debated by the full House and then sent to the Senate.

Still alive, and perhaps gaining momentum as of Friday, was a 2-cents-per-ounce tax on sugar-sweetened beverages to be paid at wholesale. It was being heard by the House Ways and Means Committee after winning support in the Health Care Committee a day earlier.

The roughly $30 million the tax is projected to raise each year would go toward increasing Medicaid payments to doctors and other health providers, with the aim of taking pressure off the rates they charge to private insurers.

[Thor]

It isn't the tax revenue, it IS the spending. We need to stop giving these idiot politicians a pass. We need less of their "good ideas" on how to increase revenues, and more ideas on how they are going to work within their budget. But of course, that won't happen around here, because once again, the welfare vote will always win. Promising more free sh_t to those that don't work for it, and demand more from those that do work.

We need less government, not more. We need less government intervention in our lives, not more. I do not need the government to tell me what I can and can't eat or drink. I don't need Bernie Sanders telling people that everything should be free, from college to health care. Because nothing is free, someone is going to pay for it. But there are actually people who vote for him and his ilk.

Of the 30 million projected to be raised annually, how much do you think will really go to Medicaid and other health providers? I would predict none, or close to it. They will spend it on some other BS project and then decide that the tax should be 4 cents per ounce, so they can send some of it to Medicaid.

It is a never ending cycle of crap that comes out of Montpelier. We should tax those dumbasses every time they propose a new tax. Kind of like the swear jar we keep in the house. Swear and it costs ya. For the politicians, recommend a new tax, and you either put some money in the jar or get tarred and feathered. Their call.

[rod anode]

I think they need to tax the sugar makers

[kevin]

Terrible idea.  Like Thor said the money will not go where it's supposed to and be allocated to some other area where there is a shortfall.  Legislators need to find a way to cut spending.

[msm]

Thor,

Thanks for the input,  I subscribe to several of the Bernie Forums .. Totally agree on your point, Free everything from College to healthcare on top of the existing welfare programs   .. Who Pays for all this free stuff Bernie ?    The Working community is not able to continue to support the majority of non-workers ..   We pay taxes because your drink soda That approach doesn't solve the real problem -- There are too any taxes today, not enough spending control with not enough people paying taxes.  Why are folks not paying taxes ?? My response NO JOB Available ......

Bernie needs to focus on getting people to work.  Vermonters need jobs ..  Vermont needs more corporations .. jobs represent transformational progress .. Good jobs not minimum wage stuff.  but working wages .. Who is working on obtaining jobs for Vermonters ?    What is his solution for this approach ?  Partner with business,  if welders are needed,  train some welders, if machinists are needed, train them,   grow the Vermont Products list  ...  How about government incentives for new Business .. compete against New York State -- rather than lose to NY State...   

msm

[mirjo]

Your talking about two different things--the proposed tax on soda is a state issue not federal and has nothing to do with Bernie Sanders. I don't know if he was ever a state legislator. I only remember him as mayor of Burlington and then running for US House Rep. Then the senate.

As for the soda tax--dumb idea. It's too much government over-reach to begin with and beyond that it only targets a select group--primarily teens. It's unlikely to deter anyone from drinking soda--if that's the real intent and it's just making  the beverage more expensive for no reason good reason.

If the state needs revenue, perhaps it needs to find a better way to utilize what it already takes in. I'm not an MBA, but it seems if you make a budget each year and you fall short in certain areas then you need to figure out why you don't have enough in those areas. I don't understand all the long term projecting with this or that will raise or save this amount over the next 10 years or whatever. How is possible to budget money that way when you have no clue what's going to happen tomorrow or in 2 hours, let alone 10 years down the road! It's no  surprise governments can't function! Why not budget for the coming year like a normal person would do--something manageable?

As for the feds and complaining about all the spending done there--the only complaints about spending are those that involve people in this country. Why is it ok to send a ton of $$$ to other countries for aid etc, but not ok to help our own? Why is so much $$ given to large corporations  in the form of subsidies etc., when they continue to move operations/jobs/shelter income offshore keeping billions out of the coffers and screwing the American  people out of jobs. But that's ok too. Large corp squeeze congress to get whatever they want (because everyone wants to be re-elected) and the little guy gets screwed, but that's ok too? I don't get it. It's only the spending for the people that's ever vilified and nothing else. Big pharma is raising prices on certain meds just because it can--not because it needs to and it's squeezing the collective cojones of congress in the process, because there is a lot of election $$ there. 

Who are all of these alleged non-workers I keep hearing so much about? Why are there no jobs available & who says there are no jobs available? I hear job ads all the time on the radio. I think businesses in general don't want to train people--if you've read a help wanted ad in recent years, a job seeker is expected to pretty much know the job before applying. It's pretty discouraging, not to mention the impersonal online application process designed to weed out all but those who don't throw the computer at the wall. Then there are the jokers who want a resume to apply at a pizza joint. It's a fairly hostile environment for job seekers--or was a few years ago. Perhaps it has improved. I think companies could be a bit more encouraging when they're looking  for help.

 Bernie needs to focus on getting people to work. 

Didn't I recently hear something about a budget being voted down that included proposals to fix/rebuild infrastructure--bridges/roads etc in the US? That would have created a lot of jobs, since there is a lot of work that needs to be done and will take awhile. Who are the bozos voting this stuff down? Can't have it both ways--can't complain about folks being out of work and vote down a budget that would put them to work.

[msm]

Mirjo,

Thanks for taking the time to post. 

Multiple points we are in agreement on,  including the infrastructure investments Bernie has spoke of often.  Put our Fed Tax  $$$$ to work,  kick-start America,  while improving our transportation system a WIN-WIN any-way you look at it.  ( as long as the contracting process is fair and equitable )    I am also in agreement with the comment about sending Billions overseas for various assistance programs.  Invest in Americans, train versus hand-out.   

As for your job ads comments,  you are right, I've not taken the time to review anything recently.  Although the On-Line Process totally stinks, I have a relative who is currently interviewing for a part-time minimum wage position.  (  working with young cancer patients )  Four Interviews later,  she is still waiting on the results, in a very competitive environment.  ( Intern kind of thing ).  As an aside,  during the interview process she was asked to " Sing her favorite song "  .. I guess the interviewed was testing on quickly the interviewee  could respond to a situation ... sounds pretty dumb to me .. but I digress ..

Finally,  I realized I changed topic in mid-stream,  Budgets versus Spending,  we are in agreement again, " only spend what you take in " , simple economics.  My original reason for posting.   From my own perspective,  I took a very nice ride from Fairfax to Hardwick on to Cabot and Marshfield then through Groton down to Orange, Barre, Montpelier, Waterbury, Jonesville, Richmond and back home via Essex Center and Westford.    The small rural towns are literally falling apart,  including beautiful old homes,  barns, former stores, and down-town areas.  Why are these rural areas failing ?  ( I literally drove down small streets too, including Johnson, Hardwick, Marshfield, Plainfield and Cabot ) My perspective,  the local jobs are not available to keep these areas prosperous ,, and if you have a decent job,  local,  state and federal taxes burn a hole in your pocket and the  individual is left with little to improve their situation ..  How do you fix this .. my take,  the State needs to invest in more light Industry, Manufacturing, thus increasing the local tax base and the state coffers too ... my two cents ..

msm

[mkr]

Also note they ALSO Added Diet Sodas to the sugary soda Tax........... total BS, they are just trying to cover the costs of Shumlins failed Health Connect web site and won't even come close...... But the tax is to help  YOU be Healthier!

So not a fan at all...

[msm]

All --- I discussed my overall concerns about the small town economics and lack of high paying jobs in VT .. See this article for an example of my concerns .. Not sure how valid the study was but it clearly illustrates Vermont as a Non-Prosperous State .. 49th .. 

https://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/292013-whats-cure-economic-downturn-map-states/

and a source article here :

http://www.alec.org/publications/rich-states-poor-states/


From the State level -- who is responsible for job Creation ??   My take if you want to move up on this list,  you take a look at successful programs,  determine what will work in VT .. And deploy a set of programs to bring the right set of jobs to the state...

Mike M

[mirjo]

Everyone talks about creating jobs, but no one ever does. I got really tired of listening to Speaker Boehner go on & on a few years ago about "The job creators," when he knew damn well he was full of ****. If tax cuts were going to create jobs, we wouldn't have landed in a deep deep recession with job cuts all over the place.

Vermont does need to create jobs, but I like and respect the fact it doesn't just bulldoze everything over to that end. I think it would be a crappy place to live, if that were the case.

I happen to like Bernie Sanders, I think he is likely one of the only members of congress truly interested in the American People, but I can't listen to the speech anymore, it's the same over and over, but nothing gets done. Yes, we need to create more jobs and do all those things--inspire someone to just do it. Everything is falling apart, as you said msm, not just here, but all over. I think that's a lot of why Katrina was so devastating to New Orleans--didn't the levee break? And maybe wouldn't have if it had been in better shape. (??) As the weather gets more severe, more flooding, tornadoes etc a lot more damage to come. A lot of history will be lost, I expect in the years ahead.

There is too much greed. Corporations are far more interested in increasing the bottom line than retaining employees or even hiring good ones. Our disposable society has filtered down to the worker--if you don't like your job there is another dozen behind you who will accept what  we're offering. The training is minimal, new employees are expected to become proficient quickly and at the speed of long time employees before it's reasonable, and if they aren't, then in some employment  situations they're "punished" by having their hours cut. Hours go up if productivity does--this is to get an unfavorable employee to quit. These are shady practices for crappy low paying jobs. Who wins? There is a lot of turn over and a lot of people who don't care about their job or what they're doing. I would think it would cost less to invest the time in the right people and pay them decently. But that would cut in to profits.

[kpplus2]

The below are the Governors and Norm Mcallister's response to my email to them regarding the sugar beverage tax: You can send one yourself through http://www.novermontbeveragetax.com/

"Dear Keith,
Thank you for writing to me about your perspective on taxing sugar-sweetened beverages.
As you may know, I oppose the tax, because I believe alternate strategies will be more effective at addressing the serious and real problem of obesity, and I believe the tax will hurt Vermont families and businesses. Growing up in the Connecticut River Valley, I saw firsthand how easily customers can be driven over the New Hampshire border.
It is my strong belief that we can most effectively reduce rates of obesity through education and an improved health care system. We must empower kids, parents, and schools with the information that they need to make healthy choices. This must include education on nutrition, physical activity, and the risks associated with obesity. We must encourage preventative care and healthier lifestyles by continuing to move towards a health care system where we reward our providers for outcomes instead of a fee-for-service system. My administration is making progress on these fronts as we champion education policy and health care reform, exploring how we can best equip our schools and health care providers with the tools necessary to prevent and reduce the rates of obesity in Vermont.
I am proud that Vermont is consistently ranked as one of the healthiest states in the nation by the United Health Foundation. Together, we can make great progress towards reducing obesity and protecting the livelihoods of Vermonters working hard to support their families. Thank you again for your correspondence.
If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact my office".
Sincerely,
Peter Shumlin
Governor

Norm Mcallister:  "There are even worse proposals being made I will not be voting for any of them"