Two Deaths So Far - Should The Police Have Chased??

[Henry]

Sad situation in South Burlington where the police chased a car full of young people, which ended up slamming into another car with two of the youths dead and one in Intensive Care.

It makes one wonder if more emphasis should be placed on the seriousness of the crime, before a chase takes place.  Can't be that much traffic at 2 a.m., that the car which was seen by the police officer couldn't have been found.  Underage drinking does happen and my heart goes out to the parents of these two that have died needlessly.  There are a lot of shouldn'ts here.  First of all, the one who had the party, Second, the kids that attended, Third, the kid that drove the car and Fourth, the policeman that chased the vehicle.

Below is an article that is in this morning's Burlington Free Press:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081006/NEWS02/81005004

[Henry]

The second young man who died in the crash has been identified:

http://www.wcax.com/global/story.asp?s=9127609

[NorthFairfaxBoy]

I believe the police did nothing wrong in this case.  The blame is completely on the driver.  Hopefully the book will be thrown at him.  (According to the reports he has a lenghty record already..).
I found this posted somewhere else....
What if the story read:

"Man killed in car wreck"
A drunk driver with 7 people in compact car ran into a family of 5 on their way to Hannafords to buy groceries. The father is dead, mother in critical and 3 children in stable condition. The police earlier in the evening had noticed the impaired driver, and had written down his plate number to mail him a citation.This is his xxx incident of DUI. Funeral services will be posted, and a fund set up to support the children for the rest of their lives, as well as the mother who will be unable to care or support them due to her injuries. The drunk driver and passengers were not injured, and will go about their business on Monday.

[trussell]

What an excellent perspective!

[Henry]

I see this all differently now - Thanks Brian

[cdzgang]

Don't rush to judge on this.  Having been a police officer, I can tell you that it is a scary situation to have a car run from you.  Many things go through your mind.  Such as why are they running. What have they done that I don't know about yet.  You must also decide if you should continue the pursuit. Public saftey must be formost in your mind.  You need to take into consideration time of day, traffic volume,road conditions, weather,the reason you are trying to stop the car, etc.  This officer clearly had been called to this area for concerns of residents about an underage party, an accident had already occurred in the neighborhood.
Had the officer elected not to go after this car and it was later involved in this accident.  There still would have been a public outcry as to why he had not gone after the car. As an officer you are constantly under scrutiny for your actions.  Many times you are in a catch 22.  With training and experience you know what and when things need action taken on. 
Pursuits are not taken lightly in police departments.  There are strict policies dealing with a pursuit.  There is also oversight by supervisers.  Either the officer or the supervisor can terminate the pusuit if they feel the risks outweigh the benefits.  This pursuit lasted less than two minutes before the crash.  That is not much time when you are trying to process and communicate all of this information to dispatch, fellow officers,supervisors and operate your car safely.
This is a very unfortunate situation for all involved. Those involved and survivors have to live with this for the rest of their lives. Too often people are quick to blame the police for their actions.  What about the responsibilty that the driver had to obey the laws, the police and take into consideration the safety of not only themself, but six other passengers in a car that was not built for that many people or those kind of speeds.  The other individuals in the car also had the responsibility to take care of their own safety.
There is enough blame to go around in these type circumstances, but personal responsibility and accountability are an individuals decision that they must live with

[MSoule]

I'm going to show my naivety here, but according to the article, the driver, Michael Lewis, has a pending charge of "felony aggravated domestic assault", against which he was able to post a $1,000 bond for his freedom.  How does a felony aggravated assault of any type only warrant only a $1,000 bond, especially considering the 23 prior convictions against him, including a furlough escape?  Will the deaths of two of his passengers be enough to hold him in custody until his trial, or will he be eligible for another $1,000 bond?

[NorthFairfaxBoy]

Perhaps a few of our law makers that post here can help us understand.  And maybe shed some light on whether or not Montpelier is looking into making it more difficult to post bonds and "get out of jail".  The driver in this incident didn't just lack judgement this time.  It is an ongoing problem with him. 

[Henry]

There is a pretty thorough write-up in this morning's Free Press if you didn't read it at:

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081007/NEWS02/310070002

[Mummy]

The Record speaks for it's self!  This dude has had more encounters with the police than most of us have had with a doctor.  The Police Officer did his job.  What would those parents have said if this dude had crashed and ALL 6-of them were KILLED!  The kids who are alive need to really do some major soul searching.  They all made a bad choice to get into a known or unknown persons car.  It was a choice they may and should never forget!  As a parent, I communicate with open ended questions when we hear of sad stories like this one.  There is no one to blame in this case but the MAN IN THE MIRROR!

[Stand Alone Defense]

Here is something I thought was kind of on the same grounds as this.  Why are people with pending felonies walking our streets and not in custody where they belong.


http://mfile.akamai.com/12948/wmv/vod.ibsys.com/2006/0728/9591734.300k.asx

Cut and paste

[NorthFairfaxBoy]

Why are these people walking the streets?  Because the "touchy-feely" people want to give them another chance..then another..then another.  Where does it or where will it end?  Again, hopefully one of the elected officials (as well hopefuls) here can chime in with their opinions. 
Mr. Gilbert?
Mr. Santee?

[melissabeerworth]

Josh's last post is a perfect example.  Police officers take on massive amounts of liability when they put on thier uniform.  They spend every minute of every day making split second decisions that could potentially be life or death.  They don't get a second chance to make those calls, but have to live with them forever.  Moreover they take an oath to protect people even when they aren't on duty.  The laws that protect the rights of the criminals make the already impossible job of a police officer that much more difficult.

[Loctavious]

Questions about crime and punishment is gettign beside the point and topic of the original subject - though i'd love to comment and will.

     I see the perspective here that if the police did not chase, the driver would not have paniced and try to elude and thus the accident 'may have' never happened.  True, THAT accident may have not happened.  I see another perspective of IF the car wasn't chased and attempted to stop, they could've went on to kill someone else as well as all of the drunk kids.  Catch 22 - kinda like that sociological ethics thought problem - where you have to chose between letting one person die or 5.  you don't know anything about personal info about them at all - nothing to help you make a morally 'right' decision.  In the end, almost everyone chooses to save the 5 people.
     In this case, with the future unkown, but knowing there were multiple lives in that car to possibly save.... The officer must have been under incredible stress - especially when he realized they were attempting to elude and driving fast. I don't think the officer's walking away from this unscathed by any shake of the stick - he watched it first hand, he saw the scene right after it happened, he became a first responder. 

[Chris Santee]

There are a few different subjects here.
Let's start with the judges who let offenders go.

Liberal judges have decided, in many circumstances,
convicts rights outweigh victims rights.
We see the results over and over.
This must change.

When a judge's term expires,
lawmakers are provided all the information they need
to make an informed decision on each judge.

The entire General Assembly (both House & Senate)
vote "thumbs-up" (retain) or "thumbs-down" (do not retain)
in a SECRET ballot.

In my opinion, this is unacceptable.

Judges are very rarely voted out.

Bills have been introduced to reveal the vote,
but the majority of "Representatives" have voted the bill down.
I'm working on getting the scorecard on that vote.

If elected, I will re-introduce the "Transparent Vote" Bill.
What happens in Montpelier, shouldn't stay in Montpelier.
Vermonters deserve the right to know how their Representatives voted.

From what I've read on the chase,
I do not believe the officer acted inappropriately.
He witnessed something I pray we never have to witness.