Charlotte McNall - Latest Burglary Victim

[Henry]

Last Friday, between the hours of 8:30 a.m. & 2 p.m. someone entered the trailer of Charlotte McNall and robbed her.  Anyone going by and seeing anyone there during those hours, should contact The Vermont State Police.

[Dick Brown]

Henry    Wonder if the State Police will check out the info that you gave them a couple of weeks ago ??  Back in the 90's, we had a string of Burglaries in residences on our back roads....turned out the instigators were from the Old North End in Burlington.  In this day and age, it's very likely that it's not local kids that doing this and are that brazen. Glad Charlotte wasn't hurt.  ( There's a funny but true story about the results of Alan Simeneau and Chris McCuin catching a thief in Chris's house on River Road a long, long time ago.  Perhaps they'll tell someone sometime !!! Don't think the burglars ever came back to Fairfax. )   

[Loctavious]

I was surprised to hear recently on WCAX NEws about a burlgary in progress where the homeowner came into the room to catch the thief.  he told him to lay on the ground, but the thief ran - the homeowner fired shots in the thiefs direction as he escaped. 
Last i knew, you couldn't use deadly force in any situation unless you felt AND THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF your or your family's life being in danger.  The report did not talk about any weapons the thief had nor any othe rfamily members home or threatened at the time.  I also did not see that the homeowner was being charged.

Did the law change here or did this guy talk himself out of arrest or citation?

[Mummy]

If you are in someone's home UNINVITED stealing that is a life threatening situation.  Comes down to YOU (or your family) or the uninvited intruder, WHO is it going to be?  Don't believe many folks here in Vermont or anywhere else are going to review the current laws before doing what should be done!

[Stand Alone Defense]

Very true, if someone forcefully enters your home uninvited there is no telling what their intentions are.   Weapon or no weapon I'm not taking that chance with my life or my families.  Also just because you don't see a weapon in their hand doesn't mean they don't have access to one stuffed in a pocket or something.  When I was in the military we use to say " Better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6" I think that fits the situation.

[cedarman]

I agree whole heartedly with doing what is necessary to protect my family.  My home is insured against robbery by Mossberg, amung others.  In the post LOCT mentioned, he said the home owner shot AT the guy.  He didn't say he shot the intruder.  The LAST thing I would ever want to do is shot and kill someone.  Given the situation of an intruder in my home, visibly armed or not, I'd ask him to hold still at the end of a 12 ga. while calling the cops.   If the intruder ran instead of staying put when I told him to, I'd let him get out the door, then touch off a couple rounds into the ground outside just to give a little extra scare into him.   Then, maybe he'd think twice about ever entering another house uninvited.
"My home is my castle, and I shall defend it against all invaders".

[Loctavious]

That's great rationale FXDHS, indeed i'd rather be alive.

The only reason i brought it up was because of someone i use to work with who was in a siilar situation.

Their Husband was a Bale Bondsman who was paid a visit by someone angry about the terms of the service he'd provided.  The angry client went to the guys house at 12:00 at night banging on the door of his house.  when the Husband opened the chained door to get him out of there, the guy started ranting and raving and refused to leave.  After hearing the police were called he started hitting the door and DID break the chain.  As the door opened he met the husband with a shotgun pointed at him telling him to get off the property immediately.
In the end, the husbadn was charged with aggravated assault just for aiming the gun at him - something about the man wasn't technically inside the home ( so breaking down the door didn't count i guess as threatening?)

I fully agree that protecting the innocent and family is paramount, i'd just hate to penalized by some absurd anti-vigilante law that's a little to narrowly worded afterwards you know.  It would be extremely infuriating to know that a criminal's basic rights outweigh my rights to protect my family.

[cedarman]

Good example Loctavious.  Unfortunately, there are WAY too many examples of people rightfully protecting their homes and families, and finding themselves in legal trouble because of it.   Ultimately, I think it depends on where you live.   IF you live in California, you're screwed because regardless of whether or not the State charges you with something, the criminal MIGHT win a civil case against you.    I would like to think in Vermont that MOST police and citizens would uphold a home owners rights (as long as you don't shoot someone in the back as they are running away).

[Kathleen]

I believe that is exactly the case in the incident Loctavious was referring to.  Yes, the owner walked in on a burglary and the owner started shooting at him; but the problem is, the owner started shooting at him as he was heading out the window trying to escape.  I don't believe he was injured or any charges have been brought against the owner as yet.

Technically, according to Vermont Law the owner should be charged; but I have mixed emotions about the situation.

[cedarman]

I'm sure there are multiple statutes that could apply.  Do you know of any specifically?    Are there any police officers who frequent this site who would care to comment?

[ohhman]

All this talk still does not help the fact that a sweet, kind, considerate, always helpful elderly lady was totally violated.  Some lowest of the lowest  have done the most unthinkable crime they could have!  My only hope & Prayer is that "what goes around, comes around " and they pay dearly in the end!

[Stand Alone Defense]

Well, Though I do work in Law Enforcement it by no means makes me an expert on this.  The thing I do know about your friend Loctavious, is in order for a person to be considered "in" your house they must cross the thresh hold of your door.  While that situation seems very unfair that is the law.  I hope for your friends sake the D.A. dropped the charges against him.
   Now every state has different laws,  Someone brought up California.  I lived in California for 5 years and they are right.  If you shoot someone in the state of California weather they were trying to hurt you or not.  You will probably end up giving them money for the rest of your life, if they don't die that is. 
  The man in north hero I believe shot at the suspect 4 times as he ran from the house.   I do not believe that he was aiming at the suspect I believe he was just trying to scare him.  If he would have shot the suspect in the back as he was running away he most certainly would be in jail.
   The rule of thumb on using deadly force in Vermont or the way they taught it in the part time police academy is.  First of all your going to have to convince a jury of your pers that you felt your life was in danger and explain why you felt that way. The saying they taught us was CAPABILTY, MEANS, and INTENT. a short example would be as fallows.  You come home and a man is standing in your living room.  That would mean he is Capable of hurting you he is standing right in front of you.  Now he turns around and you notice he has a weapon in his hand a Knife, Pipe, Gun doesn't matter.  That is his Means of doing harm to you he can hurt with the object.  Now Intent,  Does he want to hurt you? seeing how we can't read minds its hard to know.  Well lets say you yell at him to freeze or get on the floor whatever you think you would say.  At that point the perp. starts towards you with his weapon in his hand.  that is pretty cut and dry case that he intends on hurting you. 

   I hope that helps you all.  Just remember your best bet though is for you to get out of there and call the police.  It is safer for all parties involved that way.  If they leave in a car get a description and a plate number and report it.     

[Loctavious]

That's a scary situation, i don't know how'd i'd act.  I liek to say i'd be calm but the adrenaline pumping at that point no doubt must make things fuzzy.

publicity for these crimes - especially those against the elderly, would be my suggestion.  Though the thief's gone, if he'she hears what the effects on the victim were, than at the very least it would wear on their moral conscious - hopefully.  who knows, guilt is a powerful thing, may just get some thigns returned.

[cedarman]

Amen 3plusk