Rumor Mill Has It There Is Something New In Town

[NF46]

I am not saying that the ambulance would be there forever. They do need there own place. The Rescue is a growing service. But the fact is that they asked the fire dept. if they could store it there temporarily and the fire dept. told them no. That is not working together. Plus, the space is currently filled with equipment not a truck, which isn't supposed to arrive until the middle of next year. I'm sure that equipment could be relocated. Maybe the rescue would  be willing to pay a little bit for the space. And as a tax payer in this town, I would expect the fire dept. to help out the rescue for a few months. If there not willing, then maybe we don't need 3 tankers in that station. The fire dept does do mutual aide to surrounding communities. They all have tankers. Why does Fairfax need 3 Tankers?

[special ED]

sorry folks I didnt mean to open up a can of trouble ,henry spanked me .to anyone I have offended I am truely sorry

[Henry]

This is truly a sensitive subject and members of both The Fairfax Fire Department and Fairfax Rescue asked me to remove Special Ed's original post, which I did, along with a response to it as I am unable to delete a post without deleting all those that follow it.

Now, apparently Special Ed is not big on reading his e-mail, so he thought his original post didn't take so he put it back up, however he did read his e-mail tonight, thus his last post.

We are a small town and need to be careful about creating hate and discontent.  We have a fine Fire Department and a fine Rescue Squad and maybe it would be best to let them work out what needs to be done amongst themselves with out getting everybody keyed up on a public forum.  Sooner or later, somebody is going to make an emotional statement or threat that will really tick somebody off and the fireworks will begin.  Lets make sure we don't do that here.

I could lock this topic, but don't want to do that as I think there were some good suggestions that Fire & Rescue can look at between themselves or come up with some new ones.

[7F24]

NF46

Feel free to stop by any Tuesday night and we can go over the use of our equipment with you.  Any suggestions you may have to help make the fire department more efficient would be appreciated.
                         Tom Snyder

[mirjo]

I'm impartial in this matter in part because I didn't see what specialEd posted originally, but it's unfortunate that whatever the issue it couldn't be aired out in a civil manner? Why is this so sensitive to the parties involved? Rescue isn't owned by the town or governed by the select board, but the taxpayers to vote on whether or not to give us money each town meeting day to help meet our operating costs, most notably the cost of paying the per diems that are needed to keep our shifts covered. We get funds from each of our coverage areas. It seems reasonable that taxpayers would want to voice their opinions within reason of course, so I guess what I'm saying is that if certain people are uncomfortable with that conversation, perhaps there is a reason for it?

NF46 commented that he didn't feel that the fire dept was working with the rescue squad due to declining the temporary use of the space, then voiced his opinion on the need for 3 engines. Clearly a sensitive subject, but why shouldn't it be discussed openly? It's all public service isn't it?

It's really no secret that Rescue could use its own space--espcially now. We are growing our call volume is increasing and we are actively recruiting all the time to increase our numbers so we can staff a second ambulance should we have two calls at the same time. Without  a home for one it presents a problem. A temporary solution is exactly that--temporary, so even if we had parked one of our trucks in the empty spot at the fire station, it would still need to be moved.

constructive debate is fine, bickering is a waste. We need solutions. Who is going to actively pursue the old KMC Auto idea? That was a solution.

[greenek]

Until I read this string, I was under the impression that there was 1 entity, something like Fairfax Fire and Rescue.  When I see emergency vehicles drive by, I never really paid attention to the lettering on them. I assumed that depending on the call initiated to 911, a dispatcher determines the correct vehicle type(s) and the correct staffing to respond to an emergency.

Still learning new things after living here almost 2 years!

Kevin

[mirjo]

No, it's separate stuff. Rescue and fire just work together. The fire dept is a great bunch of volunteers, I have no complaints...I want to be very very clear and LOUD, we LOVE those guys. They come out in the middle of the night to help on rescue calls when we need assistance, they are hands on and accommodating at an MVA. Always willing to helpout and do what they can, some are also EMTs. They're the best, it's not lip service it's true,  we would be lost without them, absolutely!!!!!

But the fact remains, rescue is really just borrowing space in fire's building, politics infiltrates everything, even solid working relationships. I've been around for a little while and I'm still too new to know how far this point of contention goes back and it does appear a bit prickly, at least from what's presenting here regarding the new ambulance.

Actually greenek, dispatch knows to send fire (to a fire call) or rescue for whichever town is calling for the service, but it is up to fire or rescue to determine if they need the other to respond. For example: when rescue is dispatched to an accident, the crew chief decides from what is initially heard to ask for the fire dept, heavy rescue from a mutual aid town (location will determine who is called) additional ambulances, advanced life support (ALS), or jumpers in the area who can get there sooner whatever she thinks is  needed...

[mirjo]

...sometimes it's all needed, usually not. Whatever isn't is then cancelled. The reason for getting everyone on the road right away, is that it is far better to cancel what you don't need than wait for what you do. When fire is called to a scene the Captain or Chief (who ever is in charge of the particular call) determines if rescue is to be dispatched and when rescue is released from the scene as well as what other mutual aid is needed.

Fire and Rescue do work in tandem in all communities, but it is determined by the responding Chief in command, not 911 dispatch.

[David Shea]

Please read my disclaimer prior to reading this.

I have read prior post in this tread and somebody would like to see this topic removed.  Henry does have the right to do as he pleases with this private site.  That being said, the US constitution gives us the right to "Free Speach".  What I see happening in this post is self expression and the exploration of how to heal a wound  that if left untended will fester and grow.  Seems to me Democracy is alive and well in Fairfax.

I too would like to ready about puppies and new born kittens and all of the feel good things that make us warm inside.  The bottom line is in order to enjoy the good things in life we need to work through and resolve conflict first.

I have another idea.  Instead of spending upwards of $395,000 or more to buy the land, demolish KMC, remove any hazardous waste that may be underground and rebuild a suitable ADA compliant town owned building that does not generate tax revenue.  
Why do we not sell the extra ambulance and avoid this conflict and future expense.  I seem to remember two years ago that the department was at critically low staffing levels.  Are we at a point where we now have staff enough to man two ambulances?  If so are we still providing payment for on call staff?

As for the fire department building.  This structure would cost upwards of 1 million to replace in todays deflated dollar.  Wouldn't it be better utilized if more community organizations had access to it.  In other communities such as Williston & Colchester the fire department embraces multipurpose use of the fire department facilities.  Any non for profit organization can utilize their facilities as long as it does not conflict with fire business and as long as the space is available.  Currently the only groups that I am aware of that have access to the fire house are Fire, Rescue and the Senior Citizens.

Can anyone explain to me why there is not more equal access to this facility?  Maybe it is an insurance issue?  If so then I would ask the question if our municipal insurance policy should be revised so that all town properties are adequately protected.  Maybe the certificate of use that was filed with the town states that the building is for Fire Department use only.  If so then it needs to be changed.

My opinion, what about yours?

[7F24]

Can anyone explain to me why there is not more equal access to this facility?

I think there were restrictions when they built the building, Jim Field would know about that.  The biggest problem I see with using this building is parking.  If there was a call when the building was being used, getting responders in and vehicles out could be almost impossible.

[PotterFXFD]

  Guess I need to check the board more often.  Tuesday night Mike Spaulding and myself discussed the needs of both departments. What we have come up with is this. There is currently a empty bay in the station, where we had to retire a tanker for safety. Our new tanker should be here sometime in December (it has been held up waiting on International to build a chassis). Both ambulance will be housed at the station until the new tanker gets here. Mike is working on several other spaces to house 1 rig in the future. He hopes to have something worked out before our new tanker arrives. I think we would preffer to keep the rigs housed in different locations as to give better coverage to all areas. We both have members that live in all corners of town as well as Fletcher and Westford. Both organizations do a great job, we do work well together, and this issue has been worked thru, with all involved parties happy with the out come.

Chief Dean Potter, Fairfax Fire.

[HayesFXFD17]

David,

I like what you have say.  As Deputy Fire Chief and a proactive community member I agree with multi-use facilities and community oriented facilities.  There are however, three major concerns which would need to be addressed with the fire station before any further talks of such could materialize.  I personally do not know the politics behind the land or structure use, but do know that I have always been instructed by Town Management that functions other than fire or rescue sponsored events and senior's biweekly luncheons are prohibited. 

The first and foremost is building security.  As with any business the protection of assets is imperative.  With what I would safety estimate as over a Million Dollars worth of personal protective equipment and life saving equipment stored in the bays along with administrative materials in the offices I have a huge concern with random persons in and out of the building.  I know Fairfax is a “friendly” community and we couldn't imagine tampering or vandalism happening here but the town is growing rapidly and there are just certain realities we deal with in today's world.  Without a very expensive system such as Kronos to limit access times and areas of the building, I as a department administrator am not comfortable with this as my responsibility is the safe operation and reliability of Town of Fairfax Fire apparatus and equipment. 

The second issues are the lack of adequate parking to accommodate functions along with the response of firefighters personal vehicles in the event of an emergency response.  Our call volume has increased 20% each year for the past 5 years and this year 2009 is projected no differently.  The frequency in which we are in and out of that lot and building is incredible and most people do not realize the amount traffic that fire and rescue create.  The calls Henry reports on his forum are only a small fraction of the calls both fire and rescue are responding to.  This does not take into account fire and rescue based meetings or events. 

The third issue is NFPA 1 and 101 Fire and Building Codes involving change of use, occupancy loads, and permitted parking.  There is a whole host of code requirements that would need to be complied with should the land and building be change from its current “deeded” use if you will to a multi-disciplined facility. 

I hope this clears up some of the questions as to why the building is currently not used for any other functions than those listed.  The reality is that to solve this issue will cost money in permitting, facility upgrading and security.  Not an easy or inexpensive solution that Chief Potter or myself have any control over. 

Justin Hayes
Deputy Chief
Fairfax Fire

[mirjo]

David, before ordering the new ambulance, it was discussed what to do about the old one and despite the current lodging issues, it made far more sense to keep it than to sell it for a few thousand dollars when replacement costs are well over $100,000. Having it available puts us in a position to generate revenue and do some things that we haven't been able to do, because of the limitation of having only one ambulance--whatever you think is unfolding here, believe me, it's a good thing for the rescue squad to have.

Rescue, while not "critically low" in staffing like several years ago, is still in need of paid help due to the lack of enough M-F daytime volunteers. Until there are enough qualified EMT's to regularly cover those shifts, the squad will have to rely on paid help. It's just a fact that has nothing to do with having two ambulances.

That said: Are there any retirees out there who would like to volunteer some of their time to a worthy cause? Any night shifters who wouldn't mind being on call one day a week?

Nights and weekends are mostly pretty well covered  and aren't as much of an issue.

[David Shea]

Thank you for all of your replies.

I can understand the logic behind the response given by Lucien.  I am still at a loss as to how other facilities in our area that have equally expensive equipment, if not more so, & parking limitations are able to find a "middle ground".  Williston Fire is a prime example of this.  I worked with this department to provide cars for an extraction exercise.  The main concern for placement of the junk vehicles was parking, despite this legitimate concern Williston FD still is able to manage a multi purpose use building.  The same can be said for Mallets Bay Fire in Colchester.  I recently attended an evening training there, not a lot of parking either, but somehow they manage to be a good steward of deserving community organizations.

Permit process and costs?  I am sure that the organization that is trying to explore the expense of a community center is very familiar with this by now?  I am quite sure that the expansion of parking, re evaluation the permit, widening of the entrance to the fire house to meet or exceed current state standards, plus the adding of a fancy badge system, like the one used at BFA, would be far less expensive than the cost to construct a separate community center, heat, maintain, staff and insure it.  Skip Taylor is a permit expert I am sure he could give an actual figure for the cost.

I am confused as to why there is a special clause that allows for one outside group to use the fire house and excludes all others?  Does this group provide a service more valuable than all other non for profit organizations in town?  It seems like that clause could be widened?  Why is it that this group is given exempt status over others?

Code requirements:  All public building in the state have code requirements & a not to exceed occupancy number this has not proven to be a frequent problem.  I have heard of some bars in Burlington who on occasion have exceeded the occupancy number.

I would be more than happy to meet in person with anyone who would like to discuss this subject further so that a mutually beneficial use of this facility could be a reality.   

[Henry]

This is about the only place in town where senior citizens can get in and get out that has facilities for meals.  Seniors used to meet at St. Luke's, but that was impossible for some seniors to get in to.  I believe it was at that time that seniors were allowed to use the fire station.  Some of our Seniors that attend are 94 & 95 years old, while others use walkers, carry oxygen tanks, etc.

Now, I might just be a bit partial here, but do Seniors deserve special consideration? - I think so.